So I found out on this and other boards that The style Yang Lu Shan may previously have studied Hongquan- Red fist was A Chang chuan (Shaolin Long Fist) style that had a small frame, long frame and fast frame as well with many of the postures resembling something like Taijiquan.
Comments, Opinions?
matt
Hongquan- Red Fist a Taijiquan root?
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cheefatt taichi
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 6:01 am
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mls_72:
<B>So I found out on this and other boards that The style Yang Lu Shan may previously have studied Hongquan- Red fist was A Chang chuan (Shaolin Long Fist) style that had a small frame, long frame and fast frame as well with many of the postures resembling something like Taijiquan.
Comments, Opinions?
matt</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi Matt, I guess no one can tell for sure what was Yang Lu Chan's original martial art. I read a book quoting it was eagle claws then there are others quoting it was Hongquan etc. Personally, I like to hold to this; irrespective of what YLC's original art was, taiji is the art that he spent the rest of his life in. Then on, all other generations of Yang family down to Yang Sau Chung practiced only taiji and none other. The title `Yang the Invinsible' was past-on for 3 generations until Yang Cheng Fu, this proved that taiji is amongst the best of martial art system.
<B>So I found out on this and other boards that The style Yang Lu Shan may previously have studied Hongquan- Red fist was A Chang chuan (Shaolin Long Fist) style that had a small frame, long frame and fast frame as well with many of the postures resembling something like Taijiquan.
Comments, Opinions?
matt</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi Matt, I guess no one can tell for sure what was Yang Lu Chan's original martial art. I read a book quoting it was eagle claws then there are others quoting it was Hongquan etc. Personally, I like to hold to this; irrespective of what YLC's original art was, taiji is the art that he spent the rest of his life in. Then on, all other generations of Yang family down to Yang Sau Chung practiced only taiji and none other. The title `Yang the Invinsible' was past-on for 3 generations until Yang Cheng Fu, this proved that taiji is amongst the best of martial art system.
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Louis Swaim
- Posts: 1390
- Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 7:01 am
- Location: Oakland, CA
Greetings,
I agree with Cheefatt’s remarks here. The evidence of what Yang Luchan may have learned prior to going to Chen village is inconclusive. Some sources I’ve seen simply say he was a wushu enthusiast as a youth (nothing remarkable there). Taijiquan is what it is, and its evolution was certainly influenced by the great boiling pot of martial arts styles found in the region.
Matt, I question the “Red Fist” designation you mention. That is not the name I’ve seen used for the style allegedly practiced by Yang Luchan and the Wu brothers. That style uses the water-classifier character “hong,” which means “vast,” and is also a family name. The character for “red”—also pronounced “hong”—is written with the silk classifier. Could be the same art; I just don’t know.
Take care,
Louis
I agree with Cheefatt’s remarks here. The evidence of what Yang Luchan may have learned prior to going to Chen village is inconclusive. Some sources I’ve seen simply say he was a wushu enthusiast as a youth (nothing remarkable there). Taijiquan is what it is, and its evolution was certainly influenced by the great boiling pot of martial arts styles found in the region.
Matt, I question the “Red Fist” designation you mention. That is not the name I’ve seen used for the style allegedly practiced by Yang Luchan and the Wu brothers. That style uses the water-classifier character “hong,” which means “vast,” and is also a family name. The character for “red”—also pronounced “hong”—is written with the silk classifier. Could be the same art; I just don’t know.
Take care,
Louis
Thanks for replies.
I am not exactly sure yet in my recent queries about Hong fist on "vast" or "Red Fist" so I havent figured it out whcih one Yang Lu chan may have practiced. Though i understand that Yang Taijiquan is evolved from External and Internal evolution from many masters. So basically it is enough just to practice the Yang Taijiquan and not be concerned with theories,, ect.
I still feel it necessary for a younger generation person maybe like between 7 and 25 to learn Traditional Longfist style that has plenty of fast forms, weapons, sparring, intense stretching, applications, and then go on to learn taijiquan with a firm understanding of martial arts.
I learned Long fist at 21 few years after learning Yang Taiji when I was 18 (now 32) and feel it has improved me alot. Alot of similarites but more differences. There is hard and soft in long fist.
matt
I am not exactly sure yet in my recent queries about Hong fist on "vast" or "Red Fist" so I havent figured it out whcih one Yang Lu chan may have practiced. Though i understand that Yang Taijiquan is evolved from External and Internal evolution from many masters. So basically it is enough just to practice the Yang Taijiquan and not be concerned with theories,, ect.
I still feel it necessary for a younger generation person maybe like between 7 and 25 to learn Traditional Longfist style that has plenty of fast forms, weapons, sparring, intense stretching, applications, and then go on to learn taijiquan with a firm understanding of martial arts.
I learned Long fist at 21 few years after learning Yang Taiji when I was 18 (now 32) and feel it has improved me alot. Alot of similarites but more differences. There is hard and soft in long fist.
matt
Greetings all,
In Barbara Davis’ The Taijiquan Classics, p 12, she makes a statement about Wu Yuxiang and his two brothers that peaked my interest in light of the previous discussions on this forum about Yang Luchan and Hongquan. Here is what she says in her chapter on “A Brief History of Taijiquan”:
“Lore has it that though the Wu brothers studied a family tradition of boxing (which some say was a style called hongquan), their grandfather discouraged them from following military carreers.”
Somehow this particular martial art keeps popping up.
Take care,
Audi
In Barbara Davis’ The Taijiquan Classics, p 12, she makes a statement about Wu Yuxiang and his two brothers that peaked my interest in light of the previous discussions on this forum about Yang Luchan and Hongquan. Here is what she says in her chapter on “A Brief History of Taijiquan”:
“Lore has it that though the Wu brothers studied a family tradition of boxing (which some say was a style called hongquan), their grandfather discouraged them from following military carreers.”
Somehow this particular martial art keeps popping up.
Take care,
Audi