A Technical Discussion.
Now that is very helpful indeed! Yes, everything is useful. We use posture teating, so that the 'feel' of neutral qi can be comprehended when there is correct alignment. This natural 'bouyant' force that emits equally in all directions - and of course, absorbing from all directions - what ajoy this is! Thanks.
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cheefatt taichi
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 6:01 am
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by HengYu:
I have a number of students who have been practicing Tai Chi for many years, but who still find themselves 'pushing' or 'pulling' unnecessarily in push-hands. What do others think?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi HengYu,
I believe all of us at one time or another went through that stage of clumsiness in PH. However, when you mentioned these students have been practising for many years, it triggers me that they may need to relook at the foundation kungfu and principles of taiji. PH is the manifestation of the quality of taiji we had learned. Beside direct experience, correct practise has a lot to add to the level of PH skills.
At one hand PH trains sensitivity, focus is on listening. At another, it is about jin. Sensitivity can be attained by learning to fangsong and jin required proper body structure. Many people do PH by circling without priciples which may not be right. Just like form practice, PH circling required the same set of principles as in doing form i.e. body structure, song, gaps in armpits, sit on the hips and lead by kua etc. Practising this way, PH will improve very fast.
I have a number of students who have been practicing Tai Chi for many years, but who still find themselves 'pushing' or 'pulling' unnecessarily in push-hands. What do others think?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi HengYu,
I believe all of us at one time or another went through that stage of clumsiness in PH. However, when you mentioned these students have been practising for many years, it triggers me that they may need to relook at the foundation kungfu and principles of taiji. PH is the manifestation of the quality of taiji we had learned. Beside direct experience, correct practise has a lot to add to the level of PH skills.
At one hand PH trains sensitivity, focus is on listening. At another, it is about jin. Sensitivity can be attained by learning to fangsong and jin required proper body structure. Many people do PH by circling without priciples which may not be right. Just like form practice, PH circling required the same set of principles as in doing form i.e. body structure, song, gaps in armpits, sit on the hips and lead by kua etc. Practising this way, PH will improve very fast.
Truly excellent:
'Many people do PH by circling without priciples which may not be right'.
This is exactly it. Interesting - the gongfu practice is based upon hard qi, the ability to fight relatively quick (from its Hakka background), but as the student progresses with their training, the qi slowly transforms - of course, in the end, the masters perform gongfu and taichi forms from the same innate base of awareness. The internal 'transforms' the external, and on it goes! What do you think of posture training? The applying of opposing force to the 'Whip', etc? Thanks.
'Many people do PH by circling without priciples which may not be right'.
This is exactly it. Interesting - the gongfu practice is based upon hard qi, the ability to fight relatively quick (from its Hakka background), but as the student progresses with their training, the qi slowly transforms - of course, in the end, the masters perform gongfu and taichi forms from the same innate base of awareness. The internal 'transforms' the external, and on it goes! What do you think of posture training? The applying of opposing force to the 'Whip', etc? Thanks.
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cheefatt taichi
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 6:01 am
Hi HengYu, To me posture training is to attain the proper structural alignment that enables one to manifest `peng jin'. Every inch of taiji movements shld be no excess, no deficit and will pengjin. In other word, literally at any part within the form or within transition movements in the form (and/or in PH circling), pengjin shld not be broken and is able to fajin. E.g. when doing the Peng posture, our right hand travels from dantian upwards and outwards before ending in a full recognisable peng posture. In training I will purposely block my students right hand from raising about 6 inches from his dantian. If his alignment and structure is correct to inches, he will still be able to manifest pengjin even at this odd transition position. His jin, root and balance must be intact and is able to fajin even at this position. However, if his structure is not perfect to inches, blocking him at this transition movement will cause his jin to be broken and uprooted. What I meant good structure is at any point, any inch, movements must be connected to kua and powered by it. Hence, at any point, the movement is powerful.<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">What do you think of posture training? The applying of opposing force to the 'Whip', etc? Thanks.[/B]</font>
PH circling is the same too. Within each inch of the circling, kua is connected. Slow movements in taiji besides allowing one to take time to relax is also to enable one to consciously be aware of the hand, body, dantian, kua and leg connection = pengjin. Taiji without pengjin is not taiji and this is especially true in Yang style. It takes me many years to realise this and I hope to share it so that enthusiasts can have better and faster progress.
When students can PH using the kua and leg connections instead of hands, he will be able to hua and fajing easily. Once they are familiar with these internal conncetion that produces pengjin and maintain it at all times, next is to fajin. Fajin is by using the full body weight (pengjin)to push at opponent's centerline. Hence, one must be able to move pengjin (body weight) very quickly from one point to another. Do it slowly as in long jin at first and gradually increase the speed until it becomes shorter and shorter. With enough practise, one will be able to push at ease and see the opponent flying with very little efforts.
Hope this sharing will be useful to you my friend. The secret to taiji jin rest in the awareness of kua and leg connection, research deeply by direct experience one will surely gets it.
Yes - unbroken tranference. Well, what you have written is very deep - it reads like one is actually practicing the form, and viewing it from the 'inside'. Fajin that penetrates another's force, without effort. This is interesting - when incoming force drops into the feet and floor - and/or can be used to 'rebound' outward, into the opponent - disrupting structural integrity. Using the opponent's force - to defeat them. At this moment - I find that there is a dropping away of mind and body. Thank you for your thoughts - very helpful!
Re: A Technical Discussion.
I find several points useful to my students in push hands to help them "get over" the yanking appoach to pushing or pulling as you mentioned in your question.
1. There is a tendency to think that you are located in your head because your eyes are in your head. When you tell a student to originate the push from his center, he usually first pays attention to his center from his head and then pushes from his head(read: shoulders and upper back). The only solution to this is to wake up the consciousness of each part of his body so that he feels that he (or she) is his whole body. We also close our eyes in push hands because people are so eye dominant that it is difficult to have any other vantage point than your head when your eyes are open.
If you do push hands from your head your tense concepts control your behavior, not the consciousness of the body.
2. We teach the importance of understanding "from" and "to". The push originates from the center. Expand your breath into your belly so that it extends one inch out and then continue pushing along the same line. This will set the origination point at your belly. Imagine a line from your belly to the partner's center and continue breathing in along that line as if it were a tube. This will maintain the push along that line. Also imagine that the line extends back into the earth behind you and that you are breathing into the earth at the same time as you are breathing into the partner. This connects the push to the earth. In this way there is a clean line of force so that the force does not dissapate nor is there extra or extraneous dynamics taking place. It is a simple, clean and effortless push.
3. We then teach that your energy should be within the body of the partner as soon as you connect at the very beginning. When you push (by breathing through that line or tube of force) the force presses against the earth and against the inside of the partner's body (at the inside of his back) right from the beginning. In this way you are past the partners defenses and operating within him.
4. When your eyes are closed you can feel the whole interaction and balance the forces in that interaction, rather than feeling it as one person against another. And so we teach that the main thing you are doing in push hands is to keep the forces and pressures in the entire interaction balanced (front to back, side to side and top to bottom). Don't think of it as two people but as one experience. From that perspective it is much easier to create a clean, effortless line of push.
There are many other ways of teaching push hands that lead the student to let go of excesses. I am putting together a four hour push hands workshop on dvd which I hope will explain these and many other ways of training in push hands.
1. There is a tendency to think that you are located in your head because your eyes are in your head. When you tell a student to originate the push from his center, he usually first pays attention to his center from his head and then pushes from his head(read: shoulders and upper back). The only solution to this is to wake up the consciousness of each part of his body so that he feels that he (or she) is his whole body. We also close our eyes in push hands because people are so eye dominant that it is difficult to have any other vantage point than your head when your eyes are open.
If you do push hands from your head your tense concepts control your behavior, not the consciousness of the body.
2. We teach the importance of understanding "from" and "to". The push originates from the center. Expand your breath into your belly so that it extends one inch out and then continue pushing along the same line. This will set the origination point at your belly. Imagine a line from your belly to the partner's center and continue breathing in along that line as if it were a tube. This will maintain the push along that line. Also imagine that the line extends back into the earth behind you and that you are breathing into the earth at the same time as you are breathing into the partner. This connects the push to the earth. In this way there is a clean line of force so that the force does not dissapate nor is there extra or extraneous dynamics taking place. It is a simple, clean and effortless push.
3. We then teach that your energy should be within the body of the partner as soon as you connect at the very beginning. When you push (by breathing through that line or tube of force) the force presses against the earth and against the inside of the partner's body (at the inside of his back) right from the beginning. In this way you are past the partners defenses and operating within him.
4. When your eyes are closed you can feel the whole interaction and balance the forces in that interaction, rather than feeling it as one person against another. And so we teach that the main thing you are doing in push hands is to keep the forces and pressures in the entire interaction balanced (front to back, side to side and top to bottom). Don't think of it as two people but as one experience. From that perspective it is much easier to create a clean, effortless line of push.
There are many other ways of teaching push hands that lead the student to let go of excesses. I am putting together a four hour push hands workshop on dvd which I hope will explain these and many other ways of training in push hands.