breathing and other stuff... 110%!!

[Jaxi]

Joe Pass (jazz guitarist) mentioned not playing the complicated chords, rather sticking to 'grips' that are easily formed and moved from/to. This is like a martial artist avoiding flashy high kicks like seen in the movies, but which are only reasonable when the opponent is stunned or back is turned. This idea I relate to many things, and it reminds me of the idea to only use 80% effort rather than 110% like heard in USA. So many people speak about particulars when it is more reasonable to just work each concept until it is understood only enough to use it reasonably. Breathing exercises are nice, and focus on low/deep breathing can be useful, but what makes internal martial arts is chi, not breathing. They do plenty of breathing stuff in hard styles, but don't get the finer results because lacking chi. Not to say don't practice it, just saying nice get it in the mix, but focus chi not breath. So often people go on and on about breathing... It's not that big of a deal. Breath naturally and slow with the movements, but don't let it rule your thoughts/senses while practicing. A scientist can view much through a microscope, but miss seeing the world around them.

Comments or similar things noticed people getting too focused on? Would like to hear what other stuff people have tendencies to get caught up in.

[ChiDragon]

................ Breathing exercises are nice, and focus on low/deep breathing can be useful, but what makes internal martial arts is chi, not breathing. They do plenty of breathing stuff in hard styles, but don't get the finer results because lacking chi. Not to say don't practice it, just saying nice get it in the mix, but focus chi not breath. So often people go on and on about breathing... It's not that big of a deal. Breath naturally and slow with the movements, but don't let it rule your thoughts/senses while practicing.....

Comments or similar things noticed people getting too focused on? Would like to hear what other stuff people have tendencies to get caught up in.

Greetings, Jaxi
Okay, based on what you said about "just saying nice get it in the mix, but focus chi not breath.
"

Let's do an experiment by leaving the breathing out.
"Leaving the breathing out" means exhale then don't inhale for a minute, and focus on the chi.
1. Now, try to lift a hundred pound weight and tell me the result.
2. Now, take a long deep breathe and lift the same weight and tell me is there any difference in the energy level.

The key word in the statement is "mix" of chi and breathing. Without breathing, then there is no chi. Most people thought that they are getting the chi from the movements but ignoring the breathing. However, breathing cannot be avoided and it must be done. Actually the chi is coming from the breath. The breath is always the hidden factor that people don't want to give credit to. Rather they gave credit to the final product (chi) than the source of the product (breath).

In martial arts, the practitioners emphasize on the breathing is for a good reason. It was not good for nothing.

Chi is not something came from nowhere. It has to come from somewhere. If one watch any QI Gong demonstration, the performer always take a long deep breathing and hold in the dan tien before the act. Thus this is a solid proof to validate the importance of breathing.

[fchai]

Greetings,
I must confess that I find any discussion differentiating 'qi' and 'breathing' as a little odd. Perhaps it is because I understand, 'qi' (气), as being both, 'life energy' and 'breath'. So, in my humble practice, the flow of energy and the breathing are intertwined and work in harmony as one.
Take care. Fc.

[Jaxi]

Valid all, yes breathing is needed obviously, but seems like people focus breath so much they miss the chi... @.@

[Bob Ashmore]

My favorite answer to the question of breathing during the practice of TCC is one I heard from Master Yang Jun at a seminar in Louisville about ten years or so ago.
A student asked Master Yang a question something along the lines of, "Should I breathe in our out during this movement?"
Master Yang answered, "Yes."

Bob

[ChiDragon]

Valid all, yes breathing is needed obviously, but seems like people focus breath so much they miss the chi... @.@

Greetings!
If one doesn't focus on breath, then one has no chi.
If one focus chi so much, then, actually one was focusing on the breath.
In other words, breath is chi and chi is breath. One just need to realize that the names are differ but from the same origin.

One may think that the breath may be ignored and chi still can be obtained. However, no matter how one wants to ignore breath but one is still breathing. As long one breathes, chi is always there. Sorry to say, most people are giving too much credit to chi instead of breath. Even though, both breath and chi are the same thing.

I think most people are thinking about the other chi(energy) and confused with the chi(breath; air).
Let's talk about the two chi(s).

In Chinese, the character 氣(chi) has lots of meanings. For the OP sake, let's just talk about only two meanings.
chi-1: air; breath; oxygen
chi-2: energy(能量); body strength.

According to modern science, the body energy come from the glucose and oxygen. The glucose is from the food we eat; and the oxygen is from the air we breathe. Here is a simple formula to distinguish the two chi(s) and the function of the two.
glucose + oxygen => water + carbon dioxide + heat + energy

glucose + O2 => H2O + CO2 + heat + energy

We substitute the chi(s) into the formula for oxygen and energy(ATP):
glucose + chi-1 => H2O + CO2 + chi-2

Let's analyze the formula:
The left side of the formula indicates that the more oxygen(chi-1) was breathed into the body; then the more energy(chi-2) was produced until all the glucose was consumed. Please note that the oxygen is from breathing which can be controlled or regulated by breathing. Therefore, there oxygen may be retained in the lung longer if one breathes deep and slow. As a result, the energy(chi-2), vital life force, can be produced more to sustain life. It gives one more body strength like jin(勁).

Now, just think about where the jin come from when practice Tai Ji with breathing, abdominal breathing.
Please don't get confuse with the chi in the phrase: 氣沈丹田. Perhaps one can tell me which one is correct in the following statements:
氣沈丹田(Lower chi to the dan tian)
1. Lower chi-1 to the dan tian.
2. Lower chi-2 to the dan tian.

Note:
Please keep in mind chi-2 cannot be generated without chi-1.

[Jaxi]

I was only new to the practice of meditation when I performed the microcosmic orbit effectively. By effectively I mean extreme tension and pulsating to begin at lower dan tien, followed by an obvious sensation of something very physical (and I can tell you it wasn't breath) pushing it's way along my spine until when it dropped down the front of my face, felt like a bed sheet being pulled down between my skin and skull. The pulsing became faster and faster into it rushed constant like a flowing faucet. This was not breath, it was chi. I was breathing natural and not even deep, like average person just relaxing. If you don't breath you die obviously, but breath and chi are very different in my world. Focus chi not breath, but obviously yes breath or die. Thanks. Sorry be blunt, I've done high level energy work, and breath doesn't cover chi, sorry.

[Jaxi]

By high level energy work I mean to the degree of both healing others from distance or hurting. Girl had tubes tied, then lost son to sids... I went into standing meditation and felt as if her organs were my own. The plastic they used was disintegrated via my intent (like being in the groove, not forcing just allowing), and I felt the dispersed remains of the plastic ejecting from pores like sweat from her back. I've sat with people and directed energy into them (can be seen like white fog against black dull backing), and forced Chi through their pathways until without touching them or saying a word - they cried because the feeling was so intense. They just wanted it to stop, but I assured them it was good for them and to calm so no panic attack. Many instances of miracle level stuff I've dabbled in, I don't speak from inexperience. No saying to me unless you have done such things, then I will gladly have frank conversation which would be like to Taoist sages... Just knowing without speaking.

[Jaxi]

Useful here because people at all levels, and many things I'm well with not what practices common by people here, so I both learn new and find ways useful to deal people outside my level. It takes all parts to form working machine. Often insight or inspiration here I can feed from with gratitude. Know this: breath is not chi. Don't get caught up in language. Tao isn't a road. Chuan (fist/boxing) isn't speaking of a fist or boxing. Chi (breath) doesn't mean breath when speaking of internal energy. Sorry, if you look in microscope too much, lose sight everything else not zoomed in on.

[Jaxi]

I've produced minimal chi breathing deeply compared to maximum chi breathing very shallow but with intent on feeling chi. Big difference, perhaps the energy base of chi is ATP, but there are more pieces of the puzzle than either of us can name, and breathing (taking in higher levels of oxygen) does not more chi (internal energy) make.

[Jaxi]

On the lighter side... I was working with a girl at a restaurant when I decided later I would connect to her via intention and internal energy. I did so and had an interesting telepathic conversation with her that night. (This being done by waiting with empty mind until words formed in her mind and I felt them and they were aligned with the thoughts I wanted to send her.) The next time I worked with her - she walked up to me and blurted out 'Are you psychic or something?' And all I could think to say was 'Yeah, something like that.' Then she said 'Oh.' And walked away. That's all that came of it.

[Jaxi]

Keep in mind, ATP being potential energy that can be a base for all of these things given direction (just like you can tell your arm to move by simply moving it), if you connect your intention to the energy, atp and all other puzzle pieces, and direct it naturally (not thinking 'move arm' - just simply moving it)... you may find ourselves like cells to the body of earth and the conversations and tasks accomplished can be very miraculous. We are all connected, never lose sight of that. I and you are we in 'it'. And parts of the body communicate. I would go so far as to say that feeling the connection of yourself with your environment on an energetic level is more important than anything else, whether tai chi practices etc. Can be doing tai chi gets you there, but spend more time connect, less time think. Just do. Thanks.