Faith in the effectiveness of Tai Chi

[global village idiot]

I am telling what it is. Can anyone tell me what it is not?

Paraphrasing Arthur C. Clarke...

Any sufficiently advanced riddle is indistinguishable from gibberish.

gvi

[ChiDragon]

IMO, training for fighting requires to put these 4 mentioned attributes under development, test & pressure. I don´t know how the advanced practioners of tjq do that, but in hung kuen kung fu we have methods to start from light to full contact, from the very basic to the more elaborated techniques. I am able to show many techniques of tjq against experts in others martial arts, in a controlled manner, but this is not fighting.

Hi, I see why that you are an admirer of hung kuen over Tai Chi. It is because there is a big difference in requirement for both. FYI Hung Kuen(洪拳) is ready to start practice, anytime, for those who has good physical fitness. Hung Kuen is very energy consuming. However, it is for those who wants to learn a fast method and be ready to be a good fighter in a short time like in a year.

In Tai Chi, it can be practice at any physical condition. Unfortunately, the advancement depends on the initial physical condition of the practitioner. If a person is weak to begin with, by practicing for a long time, then the physical fitness will be improved progressively. Hence, it takes longer for a weak person to develop the jin than a stronger person. A weak person after one year of Tai Chi practice cannot be a fighter as opposed to a hung kuen practitioner. In other words, practice Tai Chi can improve one's health. After the health had been improved, then, one can go into the martial art aspect of Tai Chi.

[DPasek]

I am telling what it is. Can anyone tell me what it is not?

The “Boxers” believed that their martial art training made them invulnerable to bullets, and it is unlikely that any words could have convinced them otherwise; but they learned the truth when the bullets ripped through their bodies!

Boxer ChiDragon, you have a belief in a “Tai Chi body” and are asking us for what? You want someone to provide evidence to you that your beliefs are not valid? Be careful what you wish for!

[DPasek]

In Tai Chi, it can be practice at any physical condition. Unfortunately, the advancement depends on the initial physical condition of the practitioner. If a person is weak to begin with, by practicing for a long time, then the physical fitness will be improved progressively. Hence, it takes longer for a weak person to develop the jin than a stronger person. A weak person after one year of Tai Chi practice cannot be a fighter as opposed to a hung kuen practitioner. In other words, practice Tai Chi can improve one's health. After the health had been improved, then, one can go into the martial art aspect of Tai Chi.

So you are essentially saying that unhealthy TJQ practitioners cannot fight, and they would need to be healthy prior to fighting. Tell us something we don’t know! But the OP was wondering about healthy and experienced TJQ practitioners and the ability to fight, not about UNHEALTHY TJQ practitioners!

[ChiDragon]

I am telling what it is. Can anyone tell me what it is not?

The “Boxers” believed that their martial art training made them invulnerable to bullets, and it is unlikely that any words could have convinced them otherwise; but they learned the truth when the bullets ripped through their bodies!

Boxer ChiDragon, you have a belief in a “Tai Chi body” and are asking us for what? You want someone to provide evidence to you that your beliefs are not valid? Be careful what you wish for!

Did you know that was a lie to the government? So, the leader of the "Boxers" can collect the gold and silver as reward, to fight the eight countries, from the naive empress.

[ChiDragon]

In Tai Chi, it can be practice at any physical condition. Unfortunately, the advancement depends on the initial physical condition of the practitioner. If a person is weak to begin with, by practicing for a long time, then the physical fitness will be improved progressively. Hence, it takes longer for a weak person to develop the jin than a stronger person. A weak person after one year of Tai Chi practice cannot be a fighter as opposed to a hung kuen practitioner. In other words, practice Tai Chi can improve one's health. After the health had been improved, then, one can go into the martial art aspect of Tai Chi.

So you are essentially saying that unhealthy TJQ practitioners cannot fight, and they would need to be healthy prior to fighting. Tell us something we don’t know! But the OP was wondering about healthy and experienced TJQ practitioners and the ability to fight, not about UNHEALTHY TJQ practitioners!

I think it is obvious that if a person is weak will not and cannot generate enough ATP energy to do anything successfully, especial fighting. Didn't you know that Tai Chi practice can improve one's health? After years of diligent practice, a weak person can become very strong? I guess you don't have a complete understanding about jin(勁) and fajin(發勁) to begin with. Otherwise, you would have had making such statement.

The reason I brought this up was because someone had brought up the comparison between hung kuen(洪拳) and Tai Chi(太極). Please read my response to his post again.

[DPasek]

Of course [it is obvious that] unhealthy people can get healthier by practicing many things, including TJQ, but that does not automatically mean that they can fight once they become healthy. The comparison with Hung Kuen was, AFAICT, simply an example of a training system that includes progressions to fighting competency, which many TJQ training systems lack, especially those that focus primarily on health. It is not a comparison between unhealthy and healthy; it should be a comparison between healthy TJQ and healthy Hung Kuen. You fail to address the question of whether TJQ training of HEALTHY practitioners can develop fighting ability in those HEALTHY practitioners.

You seem to resort to a belief/fantasy that a healthy TJQ practitioner will be a better fighter than other healthy fighters due to some special, perhaps superhuman ability, derived from their health (but not martial) practice.

Dream on.

[ChiDragon]

Of course [it is obvious that] unhealthy people can get healthier by practicing many things, including TJQ, but that does not automatically mean that they can fight once they become healthy. The comparison with Hung Kuen was, AFAICT, simply an example of a training system that includes progressions to fighting competency, which many TJQ training systems lack, especially those that focus primarily on health. It is not a comparison between unhealthy and healthy; it should be a comparison between healthy TJQ and healthy Hung Kuen. You fail to address the question of whether TJQ training of HEALTHY practitioners can develop fighting ability in those HEALTHY practitioners.

You seem to resort to a belief/fantasy that a healthy TJQ practitioner will be a better fighter than other healthy fighters due to some special, perhaps superhuman ability, derived from their health (but not martial) practice.

Dream on.

Tai Chi develop jin in the body which, exclusively, make the body with more physical strength. The other practices do not have the same capability to develop the powerful jin as Tai Chi does. The fighting technique used by the Tai Chi practitioner is to disable the opponent by finding the most vulnerable position to get someone off balance. BTW I do not dream of a Tai Chi practitioner would fight like a wild animal.

I rest my case!

[DPasek]

RIP