Greetings,
This particular post is with regards to an interpretation of the initial Ward Off Left at the beginning of Grasping Bird's Tail. As in Louis Swaim's translation in "The Essence and Applications of Taijiquan", he mentions that there is some divergence in the interpretation regarding the orientation of the posture with regards to the torso and direction faced. According to Louis Swaim, Yang Zhenji cites several authorities who learnt from Yang Chengfu that the eyes (and hence the torso) look in the direction of the left hand. He then questions why the photo of Yang Chengfu executing this shows the eyes looking to the right side. The suggestion here is that the photo captures a transitional movement rather than the end posture of the Ward Off Left action.
I have observed some practitioners who execute this movement with the end posture looking right. However, when I execute this movement I look in the direction of the left hand and THEN shift my eyes and orientation towards the right, which is a transitional movement prior to stepping into Ward Off Right. I have also read on how this movement is executed by Cheng Man Ching and, as I understand it, he also executes it with the torso and eyes facing the left hand. And finally, in my practice of the San Shou Dui Da (the two person sparring form by Chen Yan Lin) the orientation of the torso and the direction of the eyes are consistent with this approach and interpretation. However, interestingly when I practice the Tung Family Fast Form, the execution of the Ward Off Left has my torso and eyes looking right before I step into the Tuck the Gown movement. However, I interpret the intent of this action differently and so I am comfortable with it.
Just goes to show that the intent driving the action will determine its execution.
Take care,
Frank
Grasping Bird's Tail - Ward Off Left
Re: Grasping Bird's Tail - Ward Off Left
Greetings,
Just a clarification on the difference in intent between the Tung Family Fast Form execution of Ward Off Left and in the Long Form. In the Fast Form the opponent is attacking with a right hand punch from the right, so the Ward Off Left action is to ward off left and upwards the opponent's right hand while the right hand neutralizes the opponent's left hand, which opens the opponent's centre to be attacked. One then steps forward with the right foot between the opponent's legs and strikes with both hands to the opponent's solar plexus area.
In the Long Form, an opponent is attacking from the front with a right hand punch and so one steps forward and to the right of the opponent, the right hand engages and traps the opponent's right hand and the left hand comes forward and upwards (from beneath the opponent's right arm) either to the right armpit area of the opponent or right elbow. What one does to the opponent is up to you. Typically, it is suggested that the opponent is thrown back away from you. Then, an attack may come from the right, and here is where one responds with the Ward Off Right movement. to engage and respond to this attack from the right side.
As you can imagine, the left foot's orientation will be slightly different so as to execute the quite different martial intent. Likewise, obviously, the orientation of the torso and direction of the eyes.
Anyway, something to consider in your practice.
Take care,
Frank
Just a clarification on the difference in intent between the Tung Family Fast Form execution of Ward Off Left and in the Long Form. In the Fast Form the opponent is attacking with a right hand punch from the right, so the Ward Off Left action is to ward off left and upwards the opponent's right hand while the right hand neutralizes the opponent's left hand, which opens the opponent's centre to be attacked. One then steps forward with the right foot between the opponent's legs and strikes with both hands to the opponent's solar plexus area.
In the Long Form, an opponent is attacking from the front with a right hand punch and so one steps forward and to the right of the opponent, the right hand engages and traps the opponent's right hand and the left hand comes forward and upwards (from beneath the opponent's right arm) either to the right armpit area of the opponent or right elbow. What one does to the opponent is up to you. Typically, it is suggested that the opponent is thrown back away from you. Then, an attack may come from the right, and here is where one responds with the Ward Off Right movement. to engage and respond to this attack from the right side.
As you can imagine, the left foot's orientation will be slightly different so as to execute the quite different martial intent. Likewise, obviously, the orientation of the torso and direction of the eyes.
Anyway, something to consider in your practice.
Take care,
Frank
Re: Grasping Bird's Tail - Ward Off Left
Hi Frank,
I believe the Association teaches to look to the right. I am not fully certain of the reason. I see from videos that at least some of Yang Chengfu's students seem to have used different arm movement and stepping directions than what we do. For instance, notice the right foot pivot and left toe direction of Fu Zhongwen here, although he appears to be looking to the "right."
The application that I envision is what you have described below:
I find describing the full principles of the gaze to be a little complex. There are several competing principles I can postulate: (1) look above or through where the main energy point is, (2) look above or through where the main energy point will be, (3) look between two roughly equal energy points, (4) avoid looking in directions that would upset the balance and toward directions that facilitate waist rotation, and (5) look toward where we anticipate an attack. In addition, the gaze I use in the form may be for one purpose, and the gaze I might use in application might be for another purpose.
Why do you look at the left hand instead of over the energy point in the left forearm? For example, in Ward Off Right, I think the logic is to look over the energy point in the right forearm.
Take care,
Audi
I believe the Association teaches to look to the right. I am not fully certain of the reason. I see from videos that at least some of Yang Chengfu's students seem to have used different arm movement and stepping directions than what we do. For instance, notice the right foot pivot and left toe direction of Fu Zhongwen here, although he appears to be looking to the "right."
The application that I envision is what you have described below:
In addition however, I usually show this in response to an opponent stepping forward with the right leg and respond by stepping with my left leg to trap the opponent's right leg. In this position, the opponent is often quite close to my right side, and my waist movement and the pulling of my right arm are facilitated by turning my head. Somewhat unusually for our form, we are supposed to send energy in opposing directions and have an upright bow stance without a lean. I think it is easier to keep energy in the right hand if the head is turned to the right.In the Long Form, an opponent is attacking from the front with a right hand punch and so one steps forward and to the right of the opponent, the right hand engages and traps the opponent's right hand and the left hand comes forward and upwards (from beneath the opponent's right arm) either to the right armpit area of the opponent or right elbow. What one does to the opponent is up to you. Typically, it is suggested that the opponent is thrown back away from you. Then, an attack may come from the right, and here is where one responds with the Ward Off Right movement. to engage and respond to this attack from the right side.
I find describing the full principles of the gaze to be a little complex. There are several competing principles I can postulate: (1) look above or through where the main energy point is, (2) look above or through where the main energy point will be, (3) look between two roughly equal energy points, (4) avoid looking in directions that would upset the balance and toward directions that facilitate waist rotation, and (5) look toward where we anticipate an attack. In addition, the gaze I use in the form may be for one purpose, and the gaze I might use in application might be for another purpose.
Why do you look at the left hand instead of over the energy point in the left forearm? For example, in Ward Off Right, I think the logic is to look over the energy point in the right forearm.
Take care,
Audi
Re: Grasping Bird's Tail - Ward Off Left
Greetings!
During practice, as a rule of thumb, I believe that the eyes should be following the leading hand or look forward at times. During combat, the eyes should be on the opponent at all time. Putting the eyes on the leading hand is to have focus and full control of each move.
During practice, as a rule of thumb, I believe that the eyes should be following the leading hand or look forward at times. During combat, the eyes should be on the opponent at all time. Putting the eyes on the leading hand is to have focus and full control of each move.
A deep discussion requires explicit details for a good comprehension of a complex subject.
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global village idiot
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Re: Grasping Bird's Tail - Ward Off Left
Given how close our opponent is when we do this - like, right up in our faces - combined with his position relative to us, it seems impossible to do anything other than look sort of to an oblique position between left-and-right. After all, that's where our guy will be.
If we successfully transition Grasp Bird's Tail into a throw, a broken arm or whatever circumstances turn it into, it makes sense to follow our opponent, provided we only have one.
If we face more than one opponent empty-handed, we probably need to examine the choices we made that got us in this predicament.
gvi
If we successfully transition Grasp Bird's Tail into a throw, a broken arm or whatever circumstances turn it into, it makes sense to follow our opponent, provided we only have one.
If we face more than one opponent empty-handed, we probably need to examine the choices we made that got us in this predicament.
gvi
The important things are always simple.
The simple things are always hard.
The easy way is always mined.
- from Murphy's Laws of Combat
The simple things are always hard.
The easy way is always mined.
- from Murphy's Laws of Combat