push hand forms
push hand forms
there are how many steps in push hand? e.g. 24 forms in tai chi/ 103 form tai chi.
-
Mike Lucero
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Mon May 07, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Woodinville, WA, USA
Re: push hand forms
We don't have a push hands "form". We practice a variety of circles and applications, but then it's free form.
There is a two-person "form" but it's not part of Yang Family tai chi chuan.
Mike
There is a two-person "form" but it's not part of Yang Family tai chi chuan.
Mike
Re: push hand forms
The two-person form practiced by some branches of Yang Style is usually called Sanshou ("sparring"? in Chinese), but that term also refers to a sport-form of martial arts popular in China. The form I have seen can be viewed here and here and has 88 postures with an A and B side.
My understanding is that this form was invented by certain students of Yang Chengfu, but is not taught by the Yang family itself.
As Michael, touched on, the family teaches various circling patterns that typically include two to four energy techniques in a repeating sequence. There are ways to transition between patterns, combine them with various stepping patterns, and use variations to move pretty much however you want without disrupting the flow with your partner. After you have some mastery of the patterns, you can practice applications of the energies, applications from the bare-hand form, counters, and counters to the counters, etc. You can also just circle and/or step in free-form spontaneous manner.
My understanding is that this form was invented by certain students of Yang Chengfu, but is not taught by the Yang family itself.
As Michael, touched on, the family teaches various circling patterns that typically include two to four energy techniques in a repeating sequence. There are ways to transition between patterns, combine them with various stepping patterns, and use variations to move pretty much however you want without disrupting the flow with your partner. After you have some mastery of the patterns, you can practice applications of the energies, applications from the bare-hand form, counters, and counters to the counters, etc. You can also just circle and/or step in free-form spontaneous manner.
Re: push hand forms
Greetings!beginner wrote:there are how many steps in push hand? e.g. 24 forms in tai chi/ 103 form tai chi.
Learning push hand is not for anyone to start from the cold. The prerequisite is to practice the basic movements at least three to five years until the jin is developed in the body muscles. Especially, it would be more effective if the abdominal breathing was improved drastically during the basic practice.
Push hand has eight techniques. They are as follows:
1. 掤(Peng): Issue Jin with a lower arm by pushing upward and outward
2. 履(Lu): Issuet Jin with the palms against a lateral force by pushing 30% downward and 70% toward the rear.
3. 擠(Ji): Issue Jin with the back of the hands pushing the opponent forward
4. 按(An): Issue Jin with the waist with the aid of the arms pushing the opponent forward.
5. 採(Cai): Issue Jin with the fingers by holding the wrist and the elbow of the opponent
6. 列(Lie): Issue Jin with both upper arms by pushing the opposing force upward or downward.
7. 肘(Zhou): Issue Jin with the elbow to strike the torso of the opponent
8. 靠(Kao): Issue Jin with the shoulder, chest or back
In addition:
發勁(Fajin) To issue jin with any method of the above
聽勁(ting jin or listening jin: to feel the jin of the opponent by contact.
懂勁(dong jin or understanding jin): understanding one's own level of jin, in order, to feel the jin of the opponent.
A deep discussion requires explicit details for a good comprehension of a complex subject.
Re: push hand forms
Greetings,
This is an old post but it is something that I have been looking at more closely of late. In particular, it is about the "forms" or "exercises" that might form part of a set for training or development purposes for push hands. I've been taught and continue to practice the Two-person Sparring or San Shou form. However, that is not really a training form for Tui Shou or Push Hands. As Louis Swaim correctly informed me some years ago, this form was developed by Chen Yan Lin. Interestingly, Chen Yan Lin has also documented and provided descriptions on a number of basic fixed step push hands routines, which can then be advanced to moving step, etc. According to Chen Yan Lin, students were these days practicing push hands beginning with the fixed step training for the four primary techniques of ward-off, rollback, press and push. They were unaware that the earlier generations usually started from the patterns of Single-Hand Push and Neutralize, Double-Hand Level Circle Stick and Adhere, Double-Hand Push and Rollback, Double-Hand Single Rollback, Double-Hand Push and Neutralize, Double-Hand Rollback and Neutralize, etc., before moving on to Fixed-Step Four Primary Techniques, etc.
So, he recommends that in the beginning of push hands training, it is important to spend time on these fundamental skills first, instead of what he considers the modern tendency of seeking shortcuts, foregoing learning and mastering the fundamentals first. I have also come to share his views and have adopted his approach of learning and gaining competency in the fundamentals first, before advancing to more involved practice. I have also discovered, from experience, that if you bypass these more basic and fundamental routines, the students easily become confused and also do not reach a higher and practical understanding of how the various "energies" are countered and used, as well as the principles of connect, stick, adhere and follow, during push hands. By building from these fundamentals it also allows us an opportunity to focus on developing and enhancing ting jin, by cultivating awareness and sensitivity. If we forego this, to chase perceived 'immediate' results, we will not be able to also subsequently develop our dong jin.
So my suggestion, for those interested in the forms or routines that they might be able to add to their repertoire of push hands exercises, I can recommend that they check out the translations by Paul Brennan. I think that the translation is dated 2014 and titled, Taiji Compiled: Taiji Boxing by Chen Yanlin (published June, 1943).
Take care,
Frank
This is an old post but it is something that I have been looking at more closely of late. In particular, it is about the "forms" or "exercises" that might form part of a set for training or development purposes for push hands. I've been taught and continue to practice the Two-person Sparring or San Shou form. However, that is not really a training form for Tui Shou or Push Hands. As Louis Swaim correctly informed me some years ago, this form was developed by Chen Yan Lin. Interestingly, Chen Yan Lin has also documented and provided descriptions on a number of basic fixed step push hands routines, which can then be advanced to moving step, etc. According to Chen Yan Lin, students were these days practicing push hands beginning with the fixed step training for the four primary techniques of ward-off, rollback, press and push. They were unaware that the earlier generations usually started from the patterns of Single-Hand Push and Neutralize, Double-Hand Level Circle Stick and Adhere, Double-Hand Push and Rollback, Double-Hand Single Rollback, Double-Hand Push and Neutralize, Double-Hand Rollback and Neutralize, etc., before moving on to Fixed-Step Four Primary Techniques, etc.
So, he recommends that in the beginning of push hands training, it is important to spend time on these fundamental skills first, instead of what he considers the modern tendency of seeking shortcuts, foregoing learning and mastering the fundamentals first. I have also come to share his views and have adopted his approach of learning and gaining competency in the fundamentals first, before advancing to more involved practice. I have also discovered, from experience, that if you bypass these more basic and fundamental routines, the students easily become confused and also do not reach a higher and practical understanding of how the various "energies" are countered and used, as well as the principles of connect, stick, adhere and follow, during push hands. By building from these fundamentals it also allows us an opportunity to focus on developing and enhancing ting jin, by cultivating awareness and sensitivity. If we forego this, to chase perceived 'immediate' results, we will not be able to also subsequently develop our dong jin.
So my suggestion, for those interested in the forms or routines that they might be able to add to their repertoire of push hands exercises, I can recommend that they check out the translations by Paul Brennan. I think that the translation is dated 2014 and titled, Taiji Compiled: Taiji Boxing by Chen Yanlin (published June, 1943).
Take care,
Frank