Yang Family Tai Chi Discussion Board

Audi wrote:From time to time, someone asks whether it is possible to learn or practice push hands without a partner or a teacher. My own feeling is that this is not really possible; however, once you have a certain foundation, doing solo form or other exercises can indeed improve your push hands.

Hi, all
There are many people interested in tuishou(push-hand). I have went back to the OP and have second thoughts. The main concern was may we practice solo push-hand. The answer is of course we can. Otherwise, the term "solo push-hand" would not have been existed. In regard to tuishou, when do we start practicing? Actually, one already has started do solo push-hand at the beginning of doing the solo slow forms. There is no partner required for the solo form. However, every move that one makes is pushing and pulling; even though there is nothing to push nor pull. One can think of it this way. It is the beginning level of pus-hand. The purpose of the solo slow form is to build up the internal body strength but most people do not realize that.

The diligent practice of the solo will build up the jin in the body. Now, one can go into the higher level of tuishou with a partner. At this level, both partners will try to move back in forth by sticking(stay in contact) but not actually pushing or pulling. It just like doing the solo slow form. The different feeling in practicing with a partner is that one can sense the strength issued by one or the other. This is where tingjin(聽勁) comes into the play as opposed to solo. In solo, there is no partner to issue a jin for one to tingjin from. Indeed, this is the principle of Tai Chi and tuishou. To build up the jin in the body is the goal of TJQ; and it is what all TJQ practitioners wanted to accomplish. It is not differ from school to school.

BTW Doing other exercise does not have the same jin build up effect as in TJQ. That is why practice the slow basic form in solo, diligently, is very important for Tai Chi practitioners. I had repeated this many many times. However, people seem to ignore this message. But it is OK, it is their lost, not my gain. My only gain is to learn to improve my communication skills more effectively.

Happy TJQ hunting for the goodness.
CD

ChiDragon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:38 pm

yslim wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:17 pm
Good Morning ChiDragon,
What!??? You should go back to bed and give your monkey mind a long rest....night night.
Ciao,
yslim

Good afternoon, Mr Lim
We are living the same time zone. I cannot sleep that much. I am living 30 minutes from you and have tea cakes in the Harbor Seafood Village Restaurant all the time. Perhaps you would like to join me for tea and have some fun in sharing our experiences in the Tai Chi.

Good Morning ChiDragon,

I welcome your invitation! it is very kind of you. Thank you very much.

I still think you should sleep some more, because you are still dreaming that you live 30 minutes from me. After a good sleep and saying “Good Morning” to a brand-new moment with bright eyes and bushy tail, then let me answer your previous question “ How long have I been practicing TCQ ? How much do I understand about it…

Well, I know I practiced long enough to understand I should; “before I practice the TCQ, it is a good thing to hold still for a quiet moment to practice to “empty the mind”. The mind to empty, is the “monkey mind”. In Taiji it is not a good idea to ‘block it out’, because that would mean to “resist”. To resist will get stuck, this means you can’t change with yin yang change, so “DO NOT RESIST”. So I practice to let it through and “lead it into the emptiness”, just don’t invite it to stay in your mind. [For the newbies: any random thoughts that came into your mind, just recognize and acknowledge it and let it pass through. A win-win situation; no offense and none is taken and no monkey mind!]

I also understand enough of TCQ to put my “intention” to pay “attention” to the Art Of Awareness , thus I could tell you this: “I know myself [where I live] and I know you [live in Los Angles]. But you do not know me [exactly where I am], because you are so focused on your “intention” to invite me from out side of Los Angles to your favorite Harbor Seafood Village Restaurant for some good fun Taiji pow wow. I also “understand enough” that Taiji “intention” is from outside looking inwardly to a point, thus your web space relationship becomes smaller, which is ok. But I also understand that “attention” is from inside scanning outwardly, thus giving my relationship with my web space a larger spread and time. So I could learn to better understand; “When you don’t move, I maintain. When you move, I arrived first [my yi already arrived(tao) there, thus “Yi tao-chi tao-li tao”. So now any of your future move will be moving in my present time. If watching from this point of view I can see clearly your suggestion of our meeting, unfortunately it is not going to happen. Because you did not pay any “attention” when the monkey offers you his fruit-Senior Moment. So your view point is blocking the true view that “we are not living 30 minutes apart but instead of 320+ miles and about 7+ hour drive apart”.

I love to join you in your favorite Harbor Seafood Village Restaurant for tea cake and love nothing more than to have some fun sharing our experiences in Tai Chi!! It will be my treat for this happy event if you think you still can make that happen within 30 minutes drive. I even pay for all the coffee and tea you can drink … So please drug your monkey mind and go ahead and make our day. I will indulgence myself on Taji soup.

Ciao, yslim

Hi, Mr. Lim
Sorry, it was my bad. The monkey mind was mistakenly thought you were living in Monterey Park which is 30 mins away from my residence. It was because of one word missing which have had brought me 320 + miles away. Let's leave the invitation open until you are coming to Los Angeles or I am heading your way in the future.

Thank you for your revelation of your understanding about Tai Chi. In accord to your definition of "monkey mind," it is good to have a clear mind rather than an empty one. A functional mind cannot and will not be blocked. Every move that one makes in TJQ is spontaneously and continuous smooth flow. It does not require special thinking for the performance. Perhaps only at the beginning. After the diligent practice, it will become natural with finesse.

You are correct, the yi(意) will dictate your next move without any instructional thinking. If your yi is there, then your mind is not empty. The yi does multi-task is because it instruct you to move which leg, hand, when to breathe, set your foot at a desirable angle for balancing after the move. Furthermore, it prepare you the accessibility for the position of the next move. It will prevent you from getting into an awkward gesture which might cause muscle soreness. Any awkward position might sprain the muscle and become very uncomfortable. BTW There is no monkey business about it.



Please do well in your Tai Chi Practice
CD

ChiDragon wrote: ↑Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:24 pm Hi, Mr. Lim
Sorry, it was my bad. The monkey mind was mistakenly thought you were living in Monterey Park which is 30 mins away from my residence. It was because of one word missing which have had brought me 320 + miles away. Let's leave the invitation open until you are coming to Los Angeles or I am heading your way in the future.

Thank you for your revelation of your understanding about Tai Chi. In accord to your definition of "monkey mind," it is good to have a clear mind rather than an empty one. A functional mind cannot and will not be blocked. Every move that one makes in TJQ is spontaneously and continuous smooth flow. It does not require special thinking for the performance. Perhaps only at the beginning. After the diligent practice, it will become natural with finesse.

You are correct, the yi(意) will dictate your next move without any instructional thinking. If your yi is there, then your mind is not empty. The yi does multi-task is because it instruct you to move which leg, hand, when to breathe, set your foot at a desirable angle for balancing after the move. Furthermore, it prepare you the accessibility for the position of the next move. It will prevent you from getting into an awkward gesture which might cause muscle soreness. Any awkward position might sprain the muscle and become very uncomfortable. BTW There is no monkey business about it.

Please do well in your Tai Chi Practice
CD

Good Morning CD,

Hi, Mr. Lim
Sorry, it was my bad. The monkey mind was mistakenly thought you were living in Monterey Park which is 30 mins away from my residence. It was because of one word missing which have had brought me 320 + miles away. Let's leave the invitation open until you are coming to Los Angeles or I am heading your way in the future.

Lim understand Taiji Classic: If you let your monkey mind screw you up just a itsy-bitsy, you will miss by miiiiiles

Thank you for your revelation of your understanding about Tai Chi. In accord to your definition of "monkey mind," it is good to have a clear mind rather than an empty one. A functional mind cannot and will not be blocked. Every move that one makes in TJQ is spontaneously and continuous smooth flow. It does not require special thinking for the performance. Perhaps only at the beginning. After the diligent practice, it will become natural with finesse. 

Lim: you’re welcome.

You are correct, the yi(意) will dictate your next move without any instructional thinking. If your yi is there, then your mind is not empty. The yi does multi-task is because it instruct you to move which leg, hand, when to breathe, ……

Lim : 1, Imagination leads the mind, the mind leads the chi, the chi leads the li [Taiji complementary li]. 2,The pure yi does one task at a time. But it has an unimaginable speed, the physical body can't trust such speed and won’t be able to keep up. It could create a Los Angles size dan-tien traffic jam.

…set your foot at a desirable angle for balancing after the move.

LIM: 3, That will not work in true Taiji ON ’after the move.’ BECAUSE IF YOU DON’T KNOW HOW TO USE YI TO PAY “ATTENTION” TO YOUR ‘CENTER’ WHILE YOU ACT UPON YOUR FIRST MOVE, AND MAINTAIN WITH THAT ‘CENTER’ AS YOU MOVE. IF YOU CAN’T DO THIS BEFORE AND WHILE YOU MAKE THAT FIRST MOVE TO “set your foot at a desirable angle for balancing after the move.”. BECAUSE YOU HAD LOST YOUR BALANCE LONG BEFORE YOU WERE ABLE TO SET YOUR FOOT ANYWHERE. 4, NO, BECAUSE FOR YOUR LIMITED TAIJI UNDERSTANDING FROM ABOVE, YOU WOULDN’T, YOU COULDN’T AND YOU CAN’T HAVE THIS: Furthermore, it prepare[IN TAIJI THIS MEANS YOU ARE NOT THERE YET ARRIVE (TAO) SO YOU CAN’T ACT ON IT BECAUSE IT IS STILL IN YOUR FUTURE IT WILL NOT DO YOU ANY GOOD IN THE PRESENCE. THIS EXCESS THINKING IS CALLED MONKEY MIND]. 5, you the accessibility for the position of the next move[ SAME MONKEY MIND AS #4. 5,It will prevent you from getting into an awkward gesture which might cause muscle soreness Any awkward position might sprain the muscle and become very uncomfortable. [THIS MAY OR MAY NOT BE IN THE FUTURE, NOT HAPPENED YET, SO WHY GO THERE? THIS IS TOO, A MONKEY MIND. WHAT GOOD IT WILL DO YOU IN THE MOMENT OF NOW, EXCEPT CREATE DISTRACTION IN HAND ] .BTW There is no monkey business about it. IF You THINK SO, I rest my case.

Please do well in your Tai Chi Practice

Lim: Thank you CD

Ciao, yslim

Lim : 1, Imagination leads the mind, the mind leads the chi, the chi leads the li [Taiji complementary li]. 2,The pure yi does one task at a time. But it has an unimaginable speed, the physical body can't trust such speed and won’t be able to keep up. It could create a Los Angles size dan-tien traffic jam.

Good morning, Mr Lim
I am quite amused what was in your monkey mind! Imagination is what in your monkey mind? Would you please elaborate this imaginative thought?

Firstly, let me elaborate on "yi". Yi is muti-task rather than just does one task at a time. For example, if you want to move forward, offensively, with a strike. You don't want to move your leg first, then your arm; and then breathe. They shouldn't be done one at a time. Your yi should determine which part of the body moves first or parts move simultaneously. BTW The dan-tien cannot be created to any desirable size. It is only, and only has a fixed maximum size based on one's physical structure.


Wu wei,
Let nature take its course,
CD

Here is how we do push hands!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE-K4Uwm3Fg