Greetings Audi,
Audi wrote:
I doubt you intended it, but the wording of “your Fast Form” “your curriculum” has a certain implication that I cannot put into words. Separation, distance? This is an embrassingly insecure admission, but It slightly, only slightly makes me wonder: Does he want me to validate why I know Taiji Fast Form?
I apologize for allowing that implication. I used the phrase "your Fast Form" in lieu of saying "the Fast Form" and implying that there was only one generally recognized one. I have heard of several branches of Yang Style that practice fast forms that appear to differ in content and origin. I find discussions of authenticity less and less relevant to what I want to study and so was trying not to lead the discussion in that direction.
I totally understand.
The Mind set? I observe the same Taiji principles and strategies I observe in the long form, and pushing hands.
I practice Taiji everyday. When I first learned it I practiced it everyday for years. I now practice the FF as time allows or as the feeling hits me.
Audi wrote:I would expect this to be true and could quote the same about the various aspects of what I have been taught. On the other hand, there are substantial differences in the way I practice the "traditional barehand form," the sword from, the saber from, push hands, "single-movement" practice, solo Fajin, and partner Fajin. I apply the Ten Essentials differently to them. The rhythm, the speed, the footwork, the practice motive, the feeling, etc. are mostly quite distinct for me. My question was aimed at this aspect.
When learning, I too, divide things in order to know more, to understand better. Once I refine the basic requirements, I search for the pivot, the hinge; the principle pattern that Taiji is based on: yin yang, open close, empty full, etc.
I base my Long Form, Push Hands, Fast Form, free sparring, on one thing: open close, full empty. All of those things I divided fit under either open or close, empty or full.
I think the FF is a good tool for any Practitioner to have in their Taiji tool box.
Audi wrote:My own tool boxes are a mess, filled with too many tools that are wonderfully useful for applications I do not need or do not know how to do. As a minor cook that loves to buy cooking gadgets, I have learned the hard way not to consider buying a new gadget because of how wonderful it is by itself, but because of it how it will fit into my own cooking patterns and into my kitchen. As for advantages and disadvantages, what cooks well, may not clean well. What cleans well, may not nurture well. What nurtures well, may not store well. What stores well, may not cook well. For me, Tai Chi, tool boxes, and cooking utensils are often about choice.
Honestly, I am not sure what you mean by the above. Are you implying the Fast Form is like a new kitchen gadget that will messy your Taiji toolbox? If this is what you were trying to say earlier, please know my responses to your questions do not address that view. I am not trying to convert you into a Fast Form believer. If I gave you that impression, that was not my intention.
My statement, “Taiji Fast Form is a good tool for a practitioner’s toolbox”, is just a summary of my answers to your questions.
Another move from the FF helped me understand the intention of Playing the Lute.
* * *
Audi wrote:Most demos of this application are done in a downward application. The FF application causes the Opponent’s front foot to lift so that he cannot apply power. It’s kind of like lifting him in the air using his wrist and elbow.
The two applications I have been taught are actually both upward. One is the Ward Off described here and in the video you later posted. The other is an upward application of split of the opponent is pushing on my elbows. Could you describe a downward one?
I offer up the following to answer your above question only.
I am not suggesting that the downward application of Playing the Lute is wrong. Nor, am I saying those that teach it that way are wrong. There is not a hidden agenda. There are multiple applications for each Taiji posture.
Here are 3 examples of Playing the Lute demonstrated in a downward fashion.
http://youtu.be/x_luDzL03vw?t=1m12s
use your mouse to go to the 1:12 mark.
http://youtu.be/qLIFyxLVl7Q?t=2m35s
The example starts at the 2:35 mark.
Under the heading called Part III of the video,
Traditional Yang Family Style Taijiquan, Yang Zhenduo demonstrates Playing the Lute on Yang Jun. Zhenduo’s front hand does go upward and his rear hand plucks downward causing Yang Jun’s knees to bend downward toward Yang Zhenduo.
In the example I posted in my earlier post, the application of playing the Lute is different. It seems to more closely match Chengfu’s description in
METHODS OF APPLYING TAIJI BOXING http://brennantranslation.wordpress.com ... hiyong-fa/.
Chengfu's description can be found under the heading: 對敵圖
PHOTOS OF DEALING WITH AN OPPONENT, 7. Application of PLAY THE LUTE.
In the demo picture accompanying the text, the front leg of the opponent is straight; the opponent is thrown away from the defender. In the other examples, I spoke of or linked to; the opponent’s front knees bend and the opponenst are drawn toward their defenders.
Though either is fine, I gained a sudden understanding from that difference of direction and effect on the opponent.
I learned that directly from the Fast Form.
I practice the Fast sets for the similar to the reason I practice Pushing hands. To improve my functional understanding of the 8 energies and 5 steps, sticking and listening, etc.
Before the FF sets I primarily won with yin, rollback, acceptance, borrowing. After the Fast Form set…hmm, I feel I have a better balance of Yin and Yang in my Taiji functionality.
Audi wrote:I find that I put sticking and listening into my slow form, but I get my understanding mostly from Push Hands. I also pay attention to uses of the 8 energies, but I feel I again learned these mostly from Push Hands. I have also been taught or seen various ways to practice many of the form movements in Push Hands and that is where I felt I began to understand how they worked from an internal point of view. Since I do not practice a fast form, I do not know what would be the same or different for me so was curious about the experience of others.
In my experience, how does the Fast Form differ from the Long Form and Push Hands? In a very narrow and simplistic sense, I would say the following.
1. The Long Form is the foundation. It’s requirements are the 10 important points done with regularity, consistency in movement. It’s pace and height of the stance is rarely changes. I’d call it the great consistency. It is not suddenly high or low, fast or slow.
2. My experience in the difference between the Fast Form and Push Hands?
For me, Push Hands is a noncompetitive training exercise. An exercise where I develop and practice sensing the energy of an opponent. Though some use it for competition that is not what I use it for.
Thinking of Push Hands as a noncompetitive training exercise makes it easier for me to stay away from developing bad habits while focusing learning the 8 energies and training my waist.
The sensitivity learned from Push Hands is the soft foundation for my applications.
The sensitivity I developed from Push Hands informs my practical applications. For me Push Hands is a 2 or 3 stage distance from practical application.
3. The Fast Form is another stage in development. Like you, I practice sticking and yielding in my Long Form and play as if an opponent is in front of me. But, I play the Long Form in an even pace and height of the stance rarely changes, etc.
In the Fast Form, each movement has a martial application. It's mix of slow and fast movement is useful in the practice and development of explosive movement.
With it, you can practice gathering then explosively release energy. Soft movement, followed by an explosive movement.
Softness to nutralize and trap the opponent in a disadvantageous position; explosive quickness to take advantage of the opportunity.
The Fast Form allows me to practice Taiji applications until they are second nature. Until that way of reacting has become "second nature," and requires no thought.
Much like a boxer who practices their jab, right cross, uppercut, etc., until they are second nature.
Then you'd move on to the final 2 stages.
Though most do not need or want the final 2 stages.
The Long Form and Push Hands are great for building a sound and sensitive body. And that is more than enough for most.
Peace.
Note: Again, I must emphasize that all my responses to Audi's questions about the FF are strictly my personal view. A view that is based on my meager knowledge of the Fast Form.
The people who could answer questions best about the Fast Form are listed in my earlier posts within this thread.