Oldyangtaijiquan,
Thank you for sharing your opinion, I didn't know some facts about the origins of these drawings.
WU,
Thank you for the interesting thoughts concerning Wudang taiji.
Yang Lu chan in chen village
-
Yuri Snisarenko
- Posts: 205
- Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:01 am
- Location: Russia
Greetings WU,
May I ask you a little question – when did you talk with the head chief of Wudang? I was told that Mr. Li is occupying this position now. And what do you think why Zhaobao taiji contains zhenjiao (stamping) similar to chen variant in the first daodui sequence? Is zhaobao taiji a mix of chen taiji and wudang in your opinion?
[This message has been edited by Yuri Snisarenko (edited 05-28-2005).]
May I ask you a little question – when did you talk with the head chief of Wudang? I was told that Mr. Li is occupying this position now. And what do you think why Zhaobao taiji contains zhenjiao (stamping) similar to chen variant in the first daodui sequence? Is zhaobao taiji a mix of chen taiji and wudang in your opinion?
[This message has been edited by Yuri Snisarenko (edited 05-28-2005).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Zhang Sanfeng Secrets of Taiji Elixir Training (Zhang San Feng Taiji Lian Dan Mi Jue). Is said that Xiao Tianshi found that drawings (and the writings) in his searching in the the taoist monasteries.
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hello Please can somebody tell me where to read or buy this book? Please! Thanks!
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hello Please can somebody tell me where to read or buy this book? Please! Thanks!
I found litle here:
http://www.scheele.org/lee/classics.html#tccching
Ps. you can join also 2 forums that are very good and there my forum named is Hugo
They are:
http://shenmentao.com/forum/index.php?s ... 955621b56a
http://wongkiewkit.com/forum/
Regards ~
Hugo
[This message has been edited by BestHugo (edited 06-01-2006).]
[This message has been edited by BestHugo (edited 06-01-2006).]
http://www.scheele.org/lee/classics.html#tccching
Ps. you can join also 2 forums that are very good and there my forum named is Hugo
They are:
http://shenmentao.com/forum/index.php?s ... 955621b56a
http://wongkiewkit.com/forum/
Regards ~
Hugo
[This message has been edited by BestHugo (edited 06-01-2006).]
[This message has been edited by BestHugo (edited 06-01-2006).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BestHugo:
<B> Hello Please can somebody tell me where to read or buy this book? Please! Thanks!
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi BestHugo,
It may be ordered in bookstores in the PRC. I have a copy. One needs to read Chinese, however, in order to grasp it. The author is a very nice guy.
In the beginning, I was enthralled with this claim too. However, convincing as the author argues, there are some problems with his assertion. One major problem is he claims this is pre-YCF, that is, found on an ancient cave wall. Pre-YCF taiji boxing, as practiced by the Family, has much different gestures, significantly different, even the so-called middle frame of the first two generations of the Yang family. Second area of difficulty is the author's bias towards ZhaoBaoTown. As convincing as he and that argument may be to any one person, unfortunately, it lacks the distance of a neutral view. But the big problem is the gestures portray YCF's large frame popularized in the 1920's while his father's, uncle's, and grandfather's taijiboxing was much more involved and intricate. The simplification was needed to popularize the art.
Perhaps interesting, Mr Yan who learned from Master YZJ, and who also wrote "Rare People of Taiji" a few years ago, after interviewing a great Zhaobao master, learned from him, and now teaches a combined Yang/Zhaobao taijiboxing in China.
Need more help with that book?
Best Regards,
leroy
<B> Hello Please can somebody tell me where to read or buy this book? Please! Thanks!
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi BestHugo,
It may be ordered in bookstores in the PRC. I have a copy. One needs to read Chinese, however, in order to grasp it. The author is a very nice guy.
In the beginning, I was enthralled with this claim too. However, convincing as the author argues, there are some problems with his assertion. One major problem is he claims this is pre-YCF, that is, found on an ancient cave wall. Pre-YCF taiji boxing, as practiced by the Family, has much different gestures, significantly different, even the so-called middle frame of the first two generations of the Yang family. Second area of difficulty is the author's bias towards ZhaoBaoTown. As convincing as he and that argument may be to any one person, unfortunately, it lacks the distance of a neutral view. But the big problem is the gestures portray YCF's large frame popularized in the 1920's while his father's, uncle's, and grandfather's taijiboxing was much more involved and intricate. The simplification was needed to popularize the art.
Perhaps interesting, Mr Yan who learned from Master YZJ, and who also wrote "Rare People of Taiji" a few years ago, after interviewing a great Zhaobao master, learned from him, and now teaches a combined Yang/Zhaobao taijiboxing in China.
Need more help with that book?
Best Regards,
leroy
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Yuri Snisarenko:
Sorry, but I am skeptical about this.
I believe many have read Mr. Frantzis book "The power of IMA". The techniques and frame appearance are not as important as concepts. Two styles may look almost identically but one exponent may defend himself without brutish force, while other one just uses overt movements.
Hello,
Great and excellent point. Actually, this principle was explained many, many years prior to Mr. Frantzis. The third son of Yang Luchan, old Jianhou, explained to their followers that the essence is not found in the exterior form, be it the popular large frame or the rare (nowdays) middle frame. Rather, he said, in so many words, the development of energy/jin and that control is the essence of the art. This conversation was the same one in which he described energy as being "round", continuous, and with no edges while dull strength is square and easy to read, understand, and overcome.
So, the old man tells us not to get hung-up on the physical, exterior side. Yet, adhering to those beginning rules re frame practice are essential to later development. Witness the apropos advice also of the great Tung YC re following the rules, etc.
leroy
Sorry, but I am skeptical about this.
I believe many have read Mr. Frantzis book "The power of IMA". The techniques and frame appearance are not as important as concepts. Two styles may look almost identically but one exponent may defend himself without brutish force, while other one just uses overt movements.
Hello,
Great and excellent point. Actually, this principle was explained many, many years prior to Mr. Frantzis. The third son of Yang Luchan, old Jianhou, explained to their followers that the essence is not found in the exterior form, be it the popular large frame or the rare (nowdays) middle frame. Rather, he said, in so many words, the development of energy/jin and that control is the essence of the art. This conversation was the same one in which he described energy as being "round", continuous, and with no edges while dull strength is square and easy to read, understand, and overcome.
So, the old man tells us not to get hung-up on the physical, exterior side. Yet, adhering to those beginning rules re frame practice are essential to later development. Witness the apropos advice also of the great Tung YC re following the rules, etc.
leroy
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by leroyc:
In the beginning, I was enthralled with this claim too. However, convincing as the author argues, there are some problems with his assertion. One major problem is he claims this is pre-YCF, that is, found on an ancient cave wall.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hello,
this book was not found in a cave and was not given to Xiao by any Daoist Priest.
It was actually printed in China in the late 20ies (can't recall precise date, but I have originals of the first and third editions which I seem to recall are 1928 and 1935).
Xiao simply reprinted the same version in the 50ies as part of his serie of books collected in the mainland.
The content of the book should be considered spurious, in my opinion, which of course doesn't rule out the possibility for it to pre-date modern yang family material.
best
YM
In the beginning, I was enthralled with this claim too. However, convincing as the author argues, there are some problems with his assertion. One major problem is he claims this is pre-YCF, that is, found on an ancient cave wall.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hello,
this book was not found in a cave and was not given to Xiao by any Daoist Priest.
It was actually printed in China in the late 20ies (can't recall precise date, but I have originals of the first and third editions which I seem to recall are 1928 and 1935).
Xiao simply reprinted the same version in the 50ies as part of his serie of books collected in the mainland.
The content of the book should be considered spurious, in my opinion, which of course doesn't rule out the possibility for it to pre-date modern yang family material.
best
YM
guys,
I recently saw some film of LiZheng, Zhongwen, Zhenduo, Wang Dianzhen (student of Jianhou) and a few others but the alleged Chengfu format/frame is still there!
Yes, there are some moves that appear transitional in some and non existant in others.
Shaohou seems to be one with the 'different' external form representation (non Chengfu frame/format) but there seems to be varyinbg versions of this.
dreaming i am a butterfly
I recently saw some film of LiZheng, Zhongwen, Zhenduo, Wang Dianzhen (student of Jianhou) and a few others but the alleged Chengfu format/frame is still there!
Yes, there are some moves that appear transitional in some and non existant in others.
Shaohou seems to be one with the 'different' external form representation (non Chengfu frame/format) but there seems to be varyinbg versions of this.
dreaming i am a butterfly