Yang Family Tai Chi Discussion Board

Hi yslim,

Thank you for your detailed elaboration on the yin/yang connection for ''4 ozs deflect 1000lbs'' .
I must said that you are really into the TCC principles even though it just for health like you mentioned. It is wonderful to have two great masters, GM George Xu and Sam Chin, to guide you on your learning.

To all my Chinese Taichi brothers and sisters ;

KONG HEY FATT CHOY ! A HAPPY & PROSPEROUS CHINESE NEW YEAR 2012 !

Cheers,
UniTaichi

Lim,

While I have been studying ILC longer than you, I do not care about things like ‘seniority’ and prefer to acknowledge understanding and skill in applying (or teaching) that understanding instead. Since I am reclusive by personality, I have not followed Sam around and have only taken his biannual workshops here in NC, so you may actually have more experience with him than I do.

What you said in your post makes sense to me since I am used to the ILC terminology that you used, but for others on this forum who have TJQ experience but probably not ILC experience, using ILC terminology may make the concepts that you are trying to convey rather difficult to understand. While the ideas behind ILC are very compatible with TJQ, the language used is different.

While Sifu Sam Chin’s skill is phenomenal, I also think that it is brilliant how his insights (awareness) allowed him to systematize what his art embodies into an understandable training regime. When I try to illustrate ILC concepts to TJQ practitioners, I try to use TJQ terminology. As part of my reclusive personality, I have not gone through the ranking, and have thus also not been certified as an ILC teacher, so I am also reluctant to ‘teach’ ILC even though it has greatly influenced what I do in my TJQ practice (and instruction). However, the clarification of TJQ principles through studying ILC naturally comes through when I talk about and practice TJQ.

What I find to be the best tool to ‘translate’ ILC into TJQ is the concept of the sphere (ball), which is commonly used in TJQ instruction. Only a perfect sphere has no excesses or deficiencies (bumps/projections or divots/indentations); and while humans are not spherical, we can strive to produce spherical energy during the practice of either TJQ or ILC.

So, to ‘translate’ some of the ILC concepts, including some that you mentioned in your post, I would say that If you are producing the proper spherical energy, then when you contact an opponent/partner it would be like two spheres contacting each other (regardless of whether the spheres are the same size or different sizes): a sphere naturally has a ‘circle with a center’, naturally ‘meets’ the force of the opponent/partner’s sphere, naturally ‘aligns/connects your center with theirs’, you naturally maintain the opponent/partner at the ‘furthest distance from your center’ keeping them from ‘penetrating your defensive sphere’, when the sphere rotates it produces ‘yin/yang/neutral’ (i.e. one part of the sphere’s surface rotates toward the point of contact (yang) while the opposite side necessarily is rotating away from the point of contact (yin) while the point of contact (between the yin and the yang) remains neutral and unites the yin with the yang), etc. And when applied to smaller spheres, like those formed by the shapes of the arms, then you can ‘translate’ concepts like ‘concave and convex’, ‘inside or outside of the circle’, etc.

While you clearly can see the commonalities between TJQ and ILC (as can I) it does not always ‘translate’ well when ILC terminology is used while discussing TJQ. I think that your follow-up posts are better at explaining the commonalities between the two arts than was the case with your earlier post.

Sincerely,
Dan

DPasek wrote:Lim,

While I have been studying ILC longer than you, I do not care about things like ‘seniority’ and prefer to acknowledge understanding and skill in applying (or teaching) that understanding instead. Since I am reclusive by personality, I have not followed Sam around and have only taken his biannual workshops here in NC, so you may actually have more experience with him than I do.

What you said in your post makes sense to me since I am used to the ILC terminology that you used, but for others on this forum who have TJQ experience but probably not ILC experience, using ILC terminology may make the concepts that you are trying to convey rather difficult to understand. While the ideas behind ILC are very compatible with TJQ, the language used is different.

While Sifu Sam Chin’s skill is phenomenal, I also think that it is brilliant how his insights (awareness) allowed him to systematize what his art embodies into an understandable training regime. When I try to illustrate ILC concepts to TJQ practitioners, I try to use TJQ terminology. As part of my reclusive personality, I have not gone through the ranking, and have thus also not been certified as an ILC teacher, so I am also reluctant to ‘teach’ ILC even though it has greatly influenced what I do in my TJQ practice (and instruction). However, the clarification of TJQ principles through studying ILC naturally comes through when I talk about and practice TJQ.

What I find to be the best tool to ‘translate’ ILC into TJQ is the concept of the sphere (ball), which is commonly used in TJQ instruction. Only a perfect sphere has no excesses or deficiencies (bumps/projections or divots/indentations); and while humans are not spherical, we can strive to produce spherical energy during the practice of either TJQ or ILC.

So, to ‘translate’ some of the ILC concepts, including some that you mentioned in your post, I would say that If you are producing the proper spherical energy, then when you contact an opponent/partner it would be like two spheres contacting each other (regardless of whether the spheres are the same size or different sizes): a sphere naturally has a ‘circle with a center’, naturally ‘meets’ the force of the opponent/partner’s sphere, naturally ‘aligns/connects your center with theirs’, you naturally maintain the opponent/partner at the ‘furthest distance from your center’ keeping them from ‘penetrating your defensive sphere’, when the sphere rotates it produces ‘yin/yang/neutral’ (i.e. one part of the sphere’s surface rotates toward the point of contact (yang) while the opposite side necessarily is rotating away from the point of contact (yin) while the point of contact (between the yin and the yang) remains neutral and unites the yin with the yang), etc. And when applied to smaller spheres, like those formed by the shapes of the arms, then you can ‘translate’ concepts like ‘concave and convex’, ‘inside or outside of the circle’, etc.

While you clearly can see the commonalities between TJQ and ILC (as can I) it does not always ‘translate’ well when ILC terminology is used while discussing TJQ. I think that your follow-up posts are better at explaining the commonalities between the two arts than was the case with your earlier post.

Sincerely,
Dan

HI DAN

AS I AM SITTING HERE WITH A BOW OF MUSH FOR BREAKFAST, WITH MY FIRST SPOON FULL IN MOUTH I OPEN THE COMPUTER TO YOUR REPLY. I READ YOUR WONDERFUL POST TWICE WITH THIS FUNNY SENSATION IN MY BONE OF "KNOWING" OR "BEING IN ONENESS WITH YOUR WRITING", I FORGOT MY MUSH. (THIS KIND OF SENIOR MOMENT I DON'T MIND TO HAVE).THIS IS THE SECOND TIME THAT HAPPENED TO ME IN ALL THE YEARS I WITH THIS BULLETIN BOARD. THE FIRST TIME WAS WHEN I READ AUDI'S POST FEW YEARS AGO SOMETHING ABOUT 'THE SENSATION OR THE FEELING OF MOVEMENT PROCESS THROUGH EACH TRANSITION MOVEMENT" WITH THE OPEN POSTURE I THINK.

GM GEORGE XU OFTEN SAID "I'M NOT HERE" "IM GONE". BUT??? IT WAS A SOME WHAT UNSETTLING FEELING AFTERWARD ,TO READ SOMETHING THAT GO DIRECT TO THE FEELING IN THE BONE AND BY PASS THE MIND/THOUGHT/OR SOMETHING AS IF I WAS NOT EVEN THERE. "I'M GONE"? "I'M NOT HERE'? ABSTRACT IS HARD TO EXPLAIN. MAYBE IN PLAIN ENGLISH THAT IS WHAT GM SAM CHIN MEANS WHEN HE SAID "YOU THINK, YOU DON'T KNOW" ," YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T THINK". NOW THAT I KNOW, I DON'T " THINK " YOUR POST IS WONDERFUL. it is, A WONDERFULLY WRITING MASTER PIECE OF THE PROCESS OF TAIJI PRINCIPLE! TO HAVE THAT 'BONE FEELING" AGAIN IS SPEECHLESS,EVEN FOR A VIRGO. I BOW TO YOUR "WISDOM". WITH THIS I REST MY CASE.

THANK YOU
yslim

UniTaichi wrote:Hi yslim,

Thank you for your detailed elaboration on the yin/yang connection for ''4 ozs deflect 1000lbs'' .
I must said that you are really into the TCC principles even though it just for health like you mentioned. It is wonderful to have two great masters, GM George Xu and Sam Chin, to guide you on your learning.

all my Chinese Taichi brothers and sisters

KONG HEY FATT CHOY ! A HAPPY & PROSPEROUS CHINESE NEW YEAR 2012 !

Cheers,
UniTaichi

HI UNITAICHI,

JUST HOLD YOUR DRAGON, IT IS NOT HERE YET.

PLEASE EXPLAIN....

all my Chinese Taichi brothers and sisters

MY CAR CALIF. LICENSE PLATE IS "LAOFAN", YOU HAVE MY PERMISSION TO CHECK IT. SO WHAT HAPPEN TO YOUR LAOFAN TAICHI BROTHERS AND SISTERS? TAIJI 101; THEY KNOW YOU BUT YOU DON'T KNOW THEM? A BAD TAIJI MOVE, LOOK TO THE WAIST TO FIND THIS SICKNESS'S CURE.

KONG HEY FATT CHOY ! A HAPPY & PROSPEROUS CHINESE NEW YEAR 2012 !

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE LAOFAN NEW YEAR WHICH IS HERE NOW,ONLY 5 DAYS OLD. CHINESE NEW YEAR STILL SLEEPING. TAIJI 101; FORSAKE THE NEAR,THE NOW(NOW, IS ALL THAT YOU HAVE) TO SEEK AFAR,THE FUTURE? (FUTURE IS THERE, YOU NOT THERE YET). YI IS THE YANG, BODY IS THE YIN. TWO MUST BE ONE. THE NOW IS THE THREE THAT MADE ONENESS. THAT IS ALL ONE HAS. SORRY, THAT IS THE WAY AS IT IS. SO GO FIND A LOAFAN....AND NO, NOT MY CAR LICENSE PLATE.

CIAO,
yslim

I have finally managed to find a few moments of free time so I will post my current thoughts on "sung".
The discussion involving ILC is very insightful, however since I have never even heard of it before reading of it on this thread I will continue to read along on that bit.

What is Sung?
At the time of this writing I would have to say that my quick definition of "Sung" is: I'm ready.

To elaborate:
I'm not tight as a drum skin, full of stiffness, not able to move. I'm not as limp as a cooked noodle, mindless of structure, not able to move.
I have incorporated the principles of Taijiquan into my body and my mind. I'm ready.

Notice I say nothing about "relax".
Try to teach someone to relax. It's like nailing Jello to a tree.
Instead, I now teach my students to be ready.
I find it works much better that way.

Bob

Bob Ashmore wrote:The discussion involving ILC is very insightful, however since I have never even heard of it before reading of it on this thread I will continue to read along on that bit.

Hi Bob,

Here is the ILC web site, in case you are curious:
http://iliqchuan.com/

Dan

UniTaichi wrote:

Audi wrote:Greetings all,


Hi Audi,
I myself have sorted out some questions which I come across some science write-up.
I would like to share one on fajin with everyone here. In the Taichi principles we ''sink qi to dantian'' to fajin. However, I am also told by my ''teacher'' and also read from writings of some old master who said ''stick qi to spine'' which is the Mingmen. So which is it ?
D

HI UNITAICHI, AND ALL

(I STILL LIKE THE LARGE PRINT AND I'M NOT SCREAMING)

I LIKE TO SHARE WITH YOU MY EXPERIENCE IN LEARNING AND PRACTICE. YOU DECIDE WHICH IS IT. MY TERMINOLOGY USE MAYBE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT YOU HAVE HEARD. YOU MIGHT TRY TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX TO GET TO THE WISDOM YOU SEEK.

OUR FIRST TEACHER WAS SIFU JERRY JOHNSON. HE WAS THE ONLY ONE AVAILABLE TO US AT THE TIME. HE FIRST TAUGHT US THE YANG FORM, THEN THE CHEN FORM AT THE LATER YEARS. NOW WE PRACTICE A COMPLETE DIFFERENT YANG AND CHEN FORM THAT HE TAUGHT US.(THE YANG LONG FORM HE TAUGHT US IS VERY MUCH LIKE THE ONE MASTER YANG JUN TAUGHT US IN PORTLAND, OREGON WORKSHOP.) TWO YEARS INTO OUR FORM PRACTICE HE THEN INTRODUCED US THE APPLICATION. HE SAID IN ORDER TO FIGHT AS IT SHOULD,WE SHOULD CONNECT THE TWO IMPORTANT MERIDIANS IN OUR BODY. ONE CALL THE GOVERNING MERIDIAN THAT START AT THE PERINEUM TO THE SACRUM, UP THE SPINE AND PASS THROUGH THE MINGMEN ACUPUNCTURE POINT, TO THE CROWN POINT, LOOP DOWN TO THE THIRD EYE ENDS AT THE UPPER PALATE. THE OTHER ONE CALLS CONCEPTIONAL MERIDIAN, WHICH ALSO START AT THE PERINEUM. RUNNING TOWARD THE FRONT OF THE BODY’S CENTER LINE, BY WAY OF DAN TIEN TO THE CHEST ENDS AT THE LOWER PALATE, BASE OF THE TONGUE. TO CONNECT THESE TWO MERIDIANS, ONE NEEDS TO USE THE TONGUE TO TOUCHES THE UPPER PALATE. THIS IS THE SHORT VERSION CALL “ MICRO COSMIC ORBITING”. BUT FOR TAIJIQUAN WE NEED THE LEGS. SO WE WERE ALSO TAUGHT THE MACRO COSMIC ORBITING. WHICH SEND CHI THROUGH THE DAN TIEN DOWN THE LEG THROUGH ITS YANG MERIDIAN, SIMULTANEOUSLY SPIRAL THE FOOT (USE THE YI AND NOT MOVING THE FOOT) FROM BIG TOE TO SMALL TOE AND BRING ALONG THE BALL OF THE FOOT TOWARD THE EDGE OF THE FOOT( THIS FRONT HALF OF THE FOOT CALLS THE YANG SIDE) AND CONTINUE WINDING AROUND TOWARD THE HEEL UNDER THE SOLE AND UP TO THE BUBBLING SPRING (THIS BACK HALF OF THE FOOT IS CALLS YIN SIDE). AS I WAS DOING THIS, USE THE YI TO SPREAD OUT MY CHI TO GROUND FOR DECOMPOSE,THIS CALL “I GIVE CHI TO GROUND”. AND THEN I SUCK THE GROUND RECYCLED CHI INTO MY BUBBLING SPRING THROUGH MY LEG’S YIN MERIDIAN,THIS IS CALL THE “GROUND GIVES THE ENERGY BACK”. I SUCK IT THROUGH THE KUA AND LOOP IT TO MY MING MEN. (THESE ORBITING LOOPS IS WHERE THE MIRROR IMAGE OF THE 'S' IN THE TAIJI SYMBOLS JOINING/COME INTO CONTACT TO FORM 2 CIRCLES WHICH ALSO IS A FIGURE '8', A SYMBOL OF INFINITY. THIS FIGURE "8" IS THE IMAGE OF THE UPPER AND THE LOWER BODY IS NOW CONNECTING TOGETHER AS A MOVING OF ONE UNIT.) CONTINUE "UP" THE SPINE TO ORBITING FROM THE GOVERNING MERIDIAN CHANNEL THIS CALLS " CHI STICK TO THE SPINE”,(TO HELP YOUR CHI TO FLOW THROUGH THIS MERIDIAN ALONG THE SPINE, YOUR YI MUST BE IN WITH THE SPINE. THEN YOUR CHI WILL BE THERE. WHEN THESE TWO GETTING TOGETHER THE JIN-LI WILL APPEARS. THAT'S WHAT TAIJIQUAN OLD MASTERS CALL IT "YI TAO, CHI TAO, LI TAO".THIS "TAO" MEANS "ARRIVED" NOT THE OTHER "TAO"MEANS THE "WAY".) TO MY CONCEPTIONAL MERIDIAN AND "SINK" THE CHI BACK TO THE DAN TIEN. THIS IS CALL "SINK CHI TO DAN TIEN".THIS GIVE ME A CLEAR PICTURE OF THE 'PROCESS' OF THE GOVERNING MERIDIAN IS A CHI CHANNEL THAT RUNNING "UP"(YANG/GOING OUT) THE SPINE, AND THE CONCEPTIONAL MERIDIAN IS "DOWN" (YIN/GATHERING IN)TO DANTIEN (TO STORE THE CHI) UNTIL IT NEEDS TO DROP BACH TO THE PERINEUM TO KEEP THE ORBITING GOING AS NEEDED.WHEN THESE 2 MERIDIANS ARE HOOKED UP, THE REST OF THE CHANNELS WILL OPEN UP IN THE BODY AS THEY SHOULD. THIS CREATING A CONDITION FOR "ONE MOVING, THERE IS NONE THAT'S NOT-MOVES ". GIVING A GREATER POWER FOR FIGHTING. SINCE I AM TOO SMALL TO GO AND KICK BUTTS, NOT SURE I HAVE ANY POWER TO WORK FOR ME.( I LEARN THIS ABOUT 25 PLUS YEARS AGO BEFORE I MEET GM SAM CHIN IN 2009 BY A HAPPY ACCIDENT.THE ENGLISH GRAMMAR IS ALL MINE TO BLAME.)

A WORD OF CAUTION. EVEN THOUGH THESE MERIDIANS WAS CONNECTED JUST LIKE THE WIRING OF THE ELECTRIC LIGHT. IT STILL NEED TO HOOK UP TO THE POWER SOURCE. ONE NEEDS TO PAY. (TO POWER COMPANY.) THE INSTRUCTION TO THE POWER SOURCE OF THIS ORBITING IS SOMEWHAT INTERESTING. I WENT THROUGH THIS ORBITING PRACTICE IN WUJI STANCE FOR ONE HOUR EVERY DAY FOR 100 DAYS. (BY THEN WE WERE DOING THE WUJI STANCE FOR HALF HOUR ROUTINELY BEFORE THE FORM.) THAT SHOULDN’T BE A PROBLEM EXCEPT THIS, NO SEX FOR 100 DAYS, (THE TAOIST'S THING ) UNLESS ONE CAN DO THE “BIG DRAW” WITHOUT LOST ONE’S ESSENCE CHI. MY DILEMMA WAS I NEED TO KNOW THE HOW OF THIS MICRO COSMIC ORBITING TO DO THE BIG DRAW. UNFORTUNATELY I DIDN’T HAVE THE RIGHT STUFFS THEN. SO I TOO, HAVE TO PAY, (TO WHO IT MAY CONCERN). SUCHNESS IS LIFE.

To me or anyone for that matter, when one sink qi to dantian, the qi were naturally stick to spine/Mingmen at the same time.

I WISH YOU LUCK.
YSLIM


Cheers,
D

Hi yslim,

IMO and IME, the Small and Big Mirco cosmic orbit for health is to clear and unblocked any stagnation of qi in the body. For martial art as in tachi, it is to enable the continuous flow of qi/jin to our extremities, eg to enable borrow force from the ground. Small mirco cosmic is to clear our Ren and Du Mai. Big micro cosmic is to clear our 12 Meridian ( 3 Yin and 3 Yang meridian of our Hand and Foot.) To connect both you need to clear the Dai Mai or Belt Meridian as well.

I would like to add these caveat so that we can have meaningful discussion. That is, there are many levels in taichi and in each level there are stages. What everyone here or even the masters are writing based on their own experiences and understanding in their own respective level and stage. Things like fajin are multi-dimensional and are refined as one goes higher. Even the taichi classic are the same. At each level it changes and refined itself. That means most of us are sharing our own level of understanding through our experiences.

My question on the Dantian and Mingmen is for those who can fajin using Dantian as the energy source. Again if you google Plasma Ball on youtube you can have a visual idea which is much better than my explanation. The center of the Plasma Ball is the Dantian. We do not borrow force from the ground. The Dantian Is the energy source or battery as some masters described it. So when I sink qi to dantian/mingmen, I am ready to fajin. Another function of sinking the qi to dantian is to stabled and add weight to your structure and hold your rooting.

When we borrow force from the ground, we have to have Central Equiliburim or Zhong Ding. I am learning this type of fajin as well from my CMC lineage sifu. We train to use the Zhong Ding to turned by borrowing force from the ground in our form practice. That means, the force will turn our body during the form practice iso conscious turning.

About Sam Chin definition of Taichi and Yin/Yang. My understanding is that Taichi (one) and Yin/Yang(two) is the same. That means One is Two and Two is One. This understanding is from the Yi Jing classic. My view is that if you do not grasp this, later when more info comes in, one were have a difficult time in reconciliation of the info. Just saying and with due respect.

Cheers,
UniTaichi

UniTaichi wrote: About Sam Chin definition of Taichi and Yin/Yang. My understanding is that Taichi (one) and Yin/Yang(two) is the same. That means One is Two and Two is One. This understanding is from the Yi Jing classic. My view is that if you do not grasp this, later when more info comes in, one were have a difficult time in reconciliation of the info. Just saying and with due respect.

UniTaichi,

This is not necessarily different from the view in ILC. From the ILC web site:

A common mistake we make is identifying the Yin and yang as two separate forces, which move to their extremes you don't want to be either only yin or yang. But Yin and Yang are one inseparable force, which continuously evolve with and into each other. The balances of the complementary forces of Yin/Yang interact with each other to achieve harmony.

The way that Sam Chin talks about it is that for Yin & Yang to be unified as one, you need to maintain the ‘neutral’ between them. What unites them in the typical ‘double fish’ diagram is the ‘S’ line in between them (the ‘neutral’). Without the ‘neutral’, Yin & Yang are separated into two.

In practice, this means that you want to have the contact point(s) between you and your opponent/partner to be neutral, with a side next to the contact point being yin with the opposite side being yang (of course, it is best for this differentiation to be in all three planes – horizontal, frontal and sagittal – in order to maintain ‘fullness’; and which side is yin and which is yang can switch instantly if the ‘neutral’ is maintained). Or, in solo practice, you want to acknowledge (have awareness of) the transition points (the ‘neutrals’) in your movements, i.e. when you transition between yin and yang. For those unfamiliar with ILC these transition points could be viewed as the lines that separate the various quadrants in a standard XYZ plot (which correspond to the three planes – horizontal, frontal, sagittal). For those that are familiar with ILC, this also comes into play for the transitions between ‘concave’ and ‘convex’, the ‘spiking’, as well as maintaining the mental ‘neutral’, etc.

Dan

yslim wrote:

Bob Ashmore wrote: Yslim,
HOW ABOUT TRY THIS FOR SIZE?

"TAIJI HAVE YIN YANG, BUT YIN YANG IS NOT TAIJI . TO BE TAIJI, YIN YANG MUST BE ONE. TO BE ONE,THERE MUST HAVE THREE." G/MASTER. SAM F.S. CHIN SAYS.

IF SO SAMPLE, WHY SO HARD. I SO WANT TO KNOW.

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU AND U.
YSLIM

Hi DPasek,

My comment was based on what yslim put up above. The point that I tried but not able to reconciled is ''BUT YIN YANG IS NOT TAIJI'' . As I have mentioned, Taiji is Yin/Yang, and Yin/Yang is Taiji( One is Two and Two is One ). There could be a mis-quote somewhere on yslim part or reading too much into it on my part. What you have quoted from ILC website is similar to my own and the Yi Jing Classic put in another perspective.

At the end of the day, what we are exchanging are insights that could enhance our own perspective and understandings.

Thank you for sharing your views and quote from Master Sam's website.

Cheers,
UniTaichi

I would like to share one on fajin with everyone here. In the Taichi principles we ''sink qi to dantian'' to fajin. However, I am also told by my ''teacher'' and also read from writings of some old master who said ''stick qi to spine'' which is the Mingmen. So which is it ? To me or anyone for that matter, when one sink qi to dantian, the qi were naturally stick to spine/Mingmen at the same time.

HI UNITAICHI ,
IT WAS THE ABOVE STATEMENT YOU MADE WHAT I THOUGHT YOU WAS ASKED "SO WHICH IS IT? THAT PROMPTED ME TO ANSWERED YOU.SINCE YOU RARELY STATE YOUR PROCESS AS TO "HOW" OF YOUR OWN, OTHER THAN KEEP ON PARROTING WHAT OTHER HAVE ALREADY SAID. IT GIVING AN IMPRESSION YOU ARE A COLLECTOR OF SECOND HANDED INTELLECTUAL WITHOUT YOUR OWN TAI CHI LAB WISDOM. "

To me or anyone for that matter, when one sink qi to dantian, the qi were naturally stick to spine/Mingmen at the same time

" ARE YOU SURE ?

WHAT AND HOW ARE YOUR PROCESS ON DOING THIS?

IMO and IME, the Small and Big Mirco cosmic orbit for health is to clear and unblocked any stagnation of qi in the body. For martial art as in tachi, it is to enable the continuous flow of qi/jin to our extremities, eg to enable borrow force from the ground. Small mirco cosmic is to clear our Ren and Du Mai. Big micro cosmic is to clear our 12 Meridian ( 3 Yin and 3 Yang meridian of our Hand and Foot.) To connect both you need to clear the Dai Mai or Belt Meridian as well.

WONDERFUL THAT YOU ADD THE BELT MERIDIAN TO THIS 'CONNECTION' PLEASE ENLIGHTEN US WITH YOUR OWN PROCESS WHERE IS THIS BELT MERIDIAN, LIKE WHERE IT START AND END WHERE, AND HOW IT CONNECTS TO THE REN AND DU MAI. HOW YOU USE IT FOR YOUR SO MANY FAJINS.

I would like to add these caveat so that we can have meaningful discussion. That is, there are many levels in taichi and in each level there are stages. What everyone here or even the masters are writing based on their own experiences and understanding in their own respective level and stage. Things like fajin are multi-dimensional and are refined as one goes higher. Even the taichi classic are the same. At each level it changes and refined itself. That means most of us are sharing our own level of understanding through our experiences.

WITH ALL THAT BEEN SAID. SO CAN I SEE SOME OF YOUR EXPERIENCES THAT HAVE YOUR OWN WORDS IN IT? OK, LET TRY THIS ONE FOR YOUR SIZE/LLEVEL AND STAGE

"My understanding is that Taichi (one) and Yin/Yang(two) is the same. That means One is Two and Two is One.

". YOU SAID TAICHI (ONE), I AGREED. AND YIN/YANG (TWO), I AGREED ALSO, NOW I THINK WE ARE AT THE SAME LEVEL. YOU SAID "IS THE SAME." HERE I DISAGREED. SINCE YOU KNOW SO MANY KIND OF FAJIN THAT PUT YOU IN A HIGHER LEVEL. WITH RESPECT TO THE WISE YOU GO FIRST AND REFINED AS ONE GOES HIGHER WITH YOUR OWN WORKS AND WORDS SO I WILL BE AGREE ON YOUR THIRD PART (IS THE SAME) OF THIS PUZZLE. LIKE I SAID, YOU NEED THE THREE. OTHER WISE IS NOT THE SAME.

My question on the Dantian and Mingmen is for those who can fajin using Dantian as the energy source. Again if you google Plasma Ball on youtube you can have a visual idea which is much better than my explanation. The center of the Plasma Ball is the Dantian. We do not borrow force from the ground.

NO KIDDING "We do not borrow force from the ground." ARE YOU SURE? I, AS A HUMAN I WANT IT VERY MUCH.

The Dantian Is the energy source or battery as some masters described it. So when I sink qi to dantian/mingmen, I am ready to fajin. Another function of sinking the qi to dantian is to stabled and add weight to your structure and hold your rooting.

NO, YOU ARE NOT READY TO FAJIN. BECAUSE YOU HAVE SAID NOTHING ABOUT THE PROCESS HOW "WHEN SINK CHI TO DANTIEN/MINGMEN AND READY TO FAJIN." YOU CAN NOT BECAUSE YOU MAKE IT SOUND TOO EASY.


'

When we borrow force from the ground,

'

THOUGHT YOU SAID ....We do not borrow force from the ground.

we have to have Central Equiliburim or Zhong Ding. I am learning this type of fajin as well from my CMC lineage sifu.

ARE YOU TRY TO TELL US CENTRAL EQUILIBRIUM OR ZHONG DING IS ANOTHER TYPE OF FAJIN? SINCE CMC? PLEASE EXPLAIN A LITTLE ABOUT THIS KIND OF FAJIN WOULD BE APPRECIATED .

We train to use the Zhong Ding to turned by borrowing force from the ground in our form practice. That means, the force will turn our body during the form practice iso conscious turning.

I THOUGHT YOU SAID IT ALREADY " We do not borrow force from the ground."

About Sam Chin definition of Taichi and Yin/Yang. My understanding is that Taichi (one) and Yin/Yang(two) is the same. That means One is Two and Two is One. This understanding is from the Yi Jing classic.

PLEASE DON'T GO TO THE I-JING CLASSIC STUFFS UNLESS YOU ABLE TO EXPLAIN THIS "TAIJI PUZZLE" ( I CALL IT FOR LACK OF BETTER WORDS) THROUGH YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE WITH YOUR OWN WORDS. YOU COULD USE THE I-JING TO RECONFIRMED WHAT YOU SAID IT IS SO. OTHER WISE YOU JUST PARROTING AGAIN FOR YOU NOT HAVING A CLEAR PICTURE TO ILLUSTRATE THE PROCESS OF YOU OWN. IF YOU HAVE A CLEAR PICTURE YOU WILL FIND WORD TO EXPRESS IT. I AM TALKING ABOUT THE PROCESS ,NOT THE 'FEELING' OR THE 'SENSATION' WHICH SOME TIME IS HARD TO PUT INTO WORDS. OTHERWISE THERE WON'T BE ANY "A MEANINGFUL DISCUSSION",JUST LIKE YOU SAID EARLIER.

AS FOR GM CHIN'S DEFINITION OF TAJI AND YIN/YANG WHICH DAN HAVE ILLUSTRATED TO YOU MUCH BETTER THAN I EVER CAN. IF YOU STILL DON'T GET IT BEFORE YOUR EYE AND MIND, THEN "THE SECRET WELL GUARDED ITSELF". I WILL REST MY CASE AND LET YOU SLEEP ON IT IF YOU LIKE. YOU KEEP ON RECITING WHAT THE OLD MASTER SAID AND ONE DAY IT WILL DAWN ON YOU. THEN AGAIN YOU MIGHT ALREADY KNOW IT ALL BUT NOW JUST TOYING WITH US.

My view is that if you do not grasp this, later when more info comes in, one were have a difficult time in reconciliation of the info. Just saying and with due respect.

MY POINT EXACTLY. IF YOU CAN NOT GRASP THIS SIMPLE PHRASE "YIN YANG IS NOT TAIJI' AT THE BEGINNING, AND FURTHER STUDY IT IN YOUR TAIJI LAB RATHER THAN A QUICK DRAW FROM YOUR FAJIN. I COULDN'T HELP IT BUT WONDER HOW ARE YOUR SO MANY FAJIN COME TO BEING? (IN YOUR OWN WORDS IS MUCH PREFER. IF YOU CARE TO LAYOUT YOUR PROCESS. THAT WOULD BE MOST APPRECIATED SINCERELY.)

MAY YOU HAVE A GOOD FAJIN DAY
YSLIM


Cheers,
UniTaichi[/quote]