Yang Family Tai Chi Discussion Board

Hi all,
I need some help in translating from the chinese a Yang Classic like

《對待用功法守中土》

定之方中足有根，先明四正進退身。
掤捋擠按自四手，須費功夫得其真。
身形腰頂皆可以，粘連黏隨意氣均。
運動知覺來相應，神是君位骨肉臣。
分明火候七十二，天然乃武並乃文。

I found on my book shelf two books mentioning it:
"Tai-chi Touchstones: Yang Family Secret Transmissions" of D.Wile
"The red Book" of Dong Yingjie translated by A. Dong
The two versions are:

The feet must be rooted in the posture Central Equilibrium
First understand the four cardinal directions advance and retreat
Ward-off, Roll-back, Press and Push require four hands to practise
And a great deal of effort must be expended to grasp the true significance
The body, form, waist and crown of the head must be all brought into play
In sticking, adhering, joining and following, the mind and Qi are rulers
The spirit is the ruler and the flesh and bones are subjects
Clearly understanding all aspects of our art, We will naturally achieve perfection in the martial and the civil.
-------
Be square, centered, rooted and have stability in your feet.
First try to understand proper position of advance and retreat.
Ward off, Roll-Back, Press and Push are the techniques.
You don't need to waist time searching for secrets.
Body posture, waist and crown are what you need to position correctly.
Stick continuous, Stick to and follow, Yi and Qi must be in harmony.
Movement will naturally flow at your will.
Spirit is the primary and body is the secundary.
Be clear of the circle of Nature. Nature has room for martial and civil.

Does anyone know of other translations? What do you think of these two? In my opinion the first is more adherent to the original chinese but it is incomplete and somehow unsatisfactory.
For example in the sentence "Ward-off, Roll-back, Press and Push require four hands to practise" require to practise does not appear in the original.
Can anybody help?

Greetings,

There are two translations that you can check and compare: Douglas Wile translates it in Lost T'ai-chi Classics from the Late Ch'ing Dynasty, pp. 67-68. Yang Jwing-Ming translates it with commentary in Tai Chi Secrets of the Yang Style, pp. 50-51.

Take care,
Louis

Greetings,

For example in the sentence "Ward-off, Roll-back, Press and Push require four hands to practise" require to practise does not appear in the original.

Why do you not like this rendering? How do you understand the phrase 自四手?

Take care,
Audi

定之方中足有根，先明四正進退身。
掤捋擠按自四手，須費功夫得其真。
身形腰頂皆可以，粘連黏隨意氣均。
運動知覺來相應，神是君位骨肉臣。
分明火候七十二，天然乃武並乃文。

1. Stabilize the center with the rooting of the feet, one must distinguish the four directions to advance or retreat.
2. 掤捋擠按 are the four basic techniques, much effort is required to master the true art.
3. The body, waist and the crown of the head may be used, for sticking, joining or adhering is by following the thoughts equally.
4. Movements coordinate with intuition, the spirit is active and the body is passive.
5. Realizing to achieve the high level of accomplishment, it's natural to be a martial artist as well as a scholar.