Yang Family Tai Chi Discussion Board

Thought this was well produced and glad to see some of these warm-ups and two person drills out there.
http://youtu.be/FkpFpQs_gBs

Very similar to the stuff I learned from YCF’s line from Shanghai (FZW) and Hangzhou (Jiang Yu kun) but not in the same order.

I like how he added some leg pushing too

order of exercises in the Yang Family Warm-up video:

1-Standing heel/hamstring
2-Pubu-modified Snake creeps down drop stance stretch
3-Knee circles- feet together and feet apart
4-Slap knee rotation- outside knee and circle, inside knee and circle.
5. Two person body conditioning drills:
joined knee circles (inside and outside)
6-Hip circles both directions
7-Swing arms and body slap
8-Slap the hip and circle, both sides.
9 two person- hip pushing/neutralizing drill
10-Balance stance knee and ankle circles-
11-Open hip joint in balance stance- circle the leg to open hip joint.
12-Bow stance with rear leg toe kick.
13-Body flow drill: sink and expand arms (Chen Zhen Lei body drill)
14-Rotate Arm circle and turn waist (similar to pakua warm up)
15-Shoulder circles both directions-
16-Alternate shoulders-
17- Two person- shoulder pushing neuatralizing drill-
18-Both hands on L1 and rotate both directions-
19-Elbow/forearm circles-(both directions) -
20-wrist lock/elbow neutralizing drill-
21-Wrist rotations from Wu Ji stance (clockwise/counter clock)-
22-double inner arms rotations-
23-Touching wrist circles (Wudang style)-
24-Touching wrist coil to elbow circles-
25- Two person: Pung/wrist rotation partner drill-
26- two person: wrist on extended fist coiling palm-
27-Sink chest, expand chest-
28-Circle chest neutralize push solo drill
29. two person- push chest/neutralizing drill-
30. two person- back push neutralizing drill-
31-Neck-Up and down-
32-Neck Turn Left and right-
33-Neck Ear to shoulder (left and right)-
34-Neck Circle neck-
35-Silk reeling in ward off left and right-
36-silk reeling with Cloud hands-
37-Rooster on one leg-
Standing meditation forms:
38-Holding the one.
39-Pipa.

If I were to put it in the order I learned it…it would look like this: (added a few other ones learned from FZW and Jiang Yukun)

Neck:
1. Start by Raise head from Above then Turn Neck: Up and down.
2. Turn Left and right
3. Ear to shoulder (left and right)
4. Circle neck
Shoulder:
5. Shoulder circles both directions
6.. Alternate shoulders
7. Lift shoulders to ear and drop
8. Both hands on L1 and rotate both directions
9. Rotate Arm circle and turn waist (similar to pakua warm up)
Arm:
10. Elbow/forearm circles
11. Wrist rotations from Wu Ji stance (clockwise/counter clock)
12. Touching wrist circles
13. Touching wrist coil to elbow circles
14. double inner arms rotations
15.. Body flow drill: sink and expand arms

Chest/Body/Waist/hips:
17. Twist and press at Heels
18. Flow drill: fly arms center-left and right: FZW
19. Sink chest, expand chest
20. Circle chest neutralize push solo drill
21. Hip circles both directions
22. Slap the hip and circle, both sides.
23. Swing arms and body slap
24. Open hip joint in balance stance- circle the leg to open hip joint.

Legs/knees/ankle
25. Standing heel/hamstring-1
26. Knee circles- feet together and feet apart-3
27. Slap knee rotation- outside knee and circle, inside knee and circle.-4
28. Pubu-Snake creeps down drop stance stretch-2
29. Balance stance knee and ankle circles
30. Bow stance with rear leg toe kick.
31. Floor stretches (8: V, center, left, right, both side, butterfly, toe-touches)-FZW
32. Wall stretches (4 each leg-front, knee chest, side, scale)-FZW

Supplementary solo drills:
33. Silk reeling: ward off left and right.
34. Silk reeling: Cloud hands
35. Rooster on one leg
Standing meditation forms:
36. Holding the one/Wu Ji
37. Pipa Left and right
38. ward off left and right.

Two person body conditioning drills:
39. joined knee circles (inside and outside)
40. hip pushing/neutralizing drill
41. shoulder pushing/neutralizing drill
42. push chest/neutralizing drill
43. back push neutralizing drill
44. wrist lock/elbow neutralizing drill
45. Pung/wrist rotation partner drill
46. wrist on extended fist coiling palm
47. Rooting/Stance pushing- sides, sacrum, ming men, shoulder blades, c-1, dan tien, chest.
48. Hitting/kicking practice: low inside leg, low outside leg, high inside leg, high outside leg, body-body, shoulder-shoulder, head-head.
49. Hitting front of body.
50. Slapping/self hitting body set- legs, lower back, arms, face, front body.

Hi Matt,

Thanks for posting this. I had not realized that Eric or the Association and made such a video.

If I were to put it in the order I learned it…it would look like this: (added a few other ones learned from FZW and Jiang Yukun)

As far as I am aware, I do not think the order or the content of the warm-ups and exercises is meant to be definitive. I think it depends on what your purposes are. For instance, there are stretches that can help with Snake Creeps Down, and some of them are not among these lists.

Some exercises focus on warming up, some on flexibility, and some on neutralization and issuing. Some can even be used to train hard fajing as solo or partner exercises. Others focus on Qin Na or start to merge with the practice of single movements (solo or partner) from the form.

At one level, I think the exercises are one way that we begin to focus on small circles. The theory would be that whatever part or parts of my body you try to control, I should still be able to adjust some other part to neutralize your force.

I find these types of exercises fun, but also pretty physically demanding.

33. Silk reeling: ward off left and right.
34. Silk reeling: Cloud hands

I am curious. Is "reeling" the actual term you were taught? The term Eric used was "drawing silk," which I understand as referencing something similar to, but different from "reeling silk." From what I understand, "drawing silk" is what the Yang Family talks about, and "reeling silk" is what the Chen family talks about.

Take care,
Audi

Audi,
Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the order really doesn't matter as well. Our class always went through them from the head down to toe, but I dont see anything wrong with starting from the ground up.
I personally thought the order with the infusion on the two person exercises within the solo joint-opening exercises was clever and well thought out.

As for silk reeling, you are right, it should of said 'silk pulling' to distinguish it from Chen's silk reeling. Two obviously different things.

Which of the exercises listed would you consider to be used to train hard fajin as a solo practice?
I can see the bow stance with rear leg font kick as a 'Tan tuei'- like fajin kick.
Some of the more actual pushing moves on the person trying to neutralize...like the double push on the back, the push on the hip, or push on the shoulder/chest as a solo exercise.

The warming up ones are pretty obvious as well as some for flexibility, qi-na, and neutralization. Issuing- is that the same as fajin?

I liked what you said about the small circles and points of rotation for neutralization, it reminds me of the 8 circles practice. have you heard of the 8 circles practice? It is basically really simplified Taiji broken down into its most basic, yet profound circular movement with the body. Its focus is in regards to the two Dantien, (lower and chest) and 4 kua- ball and socket of hips and shoulders. Regardless of taijiquan style, some of those same basic circles are found in the Taiji movements.

Here is my friend who told me about 8 circles. His obviously has Chen 'flavor' to it, but I have seem some Yang people sink dan tien that way before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrziWytgjaI

Hi Matt,

Our class always went through them from the head down to toe, but I dont see anything wrong with starting from the ground up.

I do them from the head down as well, but do the fajin from the core outward, going from hard to relatively easy.

I personally thought the order with the infusion on the two person exercises within the solo joint-opening exercises was clever and well thought out.

I think the idea is to choose warm ups that will be useful for push hands. I, myself, also try to use them to make links with the form and the theory. For instance, the elbow movement elaborates some of what it means to "let the elbows droop." I try to point out to myself, my practice partners, and students that this movement occurs in many places in the form, such as White Crane, Brush Knee, Cloud Hands, Double Peaks to the Ears, Deflect Downward Parry and Punch, Step Back to Ride the Tiger, and others.

Which of the exercises listed would you consider to be used to train hard fajin as a solo practice?
I can see the bow stance with rear leg font kick as a 'Tan tuei'- like fajin kick.
Some of the more actual pushing moves on the person trying to neutralize...like the double push on the back, the push on the hip, or push on the shoulder/chest as a solo exercise.

I think that Eric mentioned doing the "double push to the back" with fajin, but I have not practiced that one. What I practice from this series is fajin with the single-arm push to the back (front and rear), the chest, the hips, and the front kick. I also do similar fajin exercises with a double-hand push, dantian, elbow, and a couple more kicks. If I really feel good, I had a few other movements from the form, but I would consider that somewhat different.

Here is my friend who told me about 8 circles. His obviously has Chen 'flavor' to it, but I have seem some Yang people sink dan tien that way before.

I looked at the video, and it was quite interesting. I had not heard about the 8 circles before. I think, however, that we observe somewhat different movement principles.

We were actually discussing some of these things and experimenting with them in our last couple of practices/classes. What I talk most about, which is mostly based on what I have been taught, are the following sayings:

The energy is rooted in the feet, developed in the legs, directed by the waist, and made to appear in the hands and fingers. (The differentiations in the verbs is important.)

Stick Qi to the spine.

From the most extreme softness comes the most extreme hard.

The body has three bows: the legs, the spine, and the arms.

Distinguish full and empty.

Rather than talk about "upper dantian and lower dantian," we always look for the waist to lead and direct the energy, at least speaking externally. We analogize it to the handle of a whip (I prefer to visualize a bamboo or willow-branch switch). After the bubbling well is used for root, the energy comes from the legs and is then directed or aimed by the waist. When we talk about a wave, we also talk about it starting from the waist. The waist can move in a horizontal circle or a vertical circle or in a figure-eight combination of the two, depending on what is needed.

I talk about feeling the energy charge up the spine, just before you finally issue through the arms. As you pour energy into the spine, you must be soft and resilient to receive the maximum amount. Once you can pour no more energy inside, it will rebound outward. The pour you can pour in, the more will rebound out.

The energy transfers can work just like a bow and arrow. You can feel the energy leave the bow in the legs to "draw" the bow in the spine. Then you feel it shoot out like an arrow. I feel this very strongly in one version of the Ward Off application we teach, and that is how I usually teach it. You can literally feel the legs unbend and load up the spine to "draw the bow." Then you use your waist as a trigger and feel your partner launch like an arrow with your forearm as the bowstring. It's a really cool experience.

The thing I probably talk the most about is "distinguish full and empty." I find that people can sometimes master the mechanics of an application, but then cannot launch their partner very far. Often this is because they do not respect this principle as it applies to the legs and arms. Usually it is because their arms are too full and it blocks the energy. Based on what I have been taught, I have various physical ways of having people feel the distinction and observe the result. Many of our most surprising counters use this principle as the main key to success. The main changes in full and empty are driven by the waist.

The other thing we say is that the waist can deliver more than just wave-like or whip-like energy. The energy can come out in a way that makes the waist appear to be driving a gear that pushes, pulls, or rotates the arms. As you mix and match, you get different effects.

Take care,
Audi

Thanks for sharing. sounds like you have some interesting teaching methods for those principles.

thats great exercise...exercise is one of the important factor in our daily life but in this fast growing worlds no one have time for spending for those..childhood obesity and most of other sickness araising with the lack of better exercise...

Anyone have the Chinese character or actual Chinese pronunciation for silk reeling vs. silk pulling. I know that silk reeling is something like "Chan Su Ching" what is the Chinese for Silk pulling? My Chinese friend could not think of the difference when I spoke about Yang Taiji's silk pulling as compared to Chen's silk reeling.

抽絲 chou si “drawing silk”
纏絲 chan si “reeling silk”

The warm ups are really cool to watch. I think the secret behind their heath is all of these exercise and healthy food habit. How strong their body is. They don’t even have something called fat. I think I should also learn some warm ups.

I re-visited the Yang family warm-ups and found out they like to do the opposite, rather than from head to toe warm-up they do from foot to head.

Which ironically (as a 3rd year student of acupuncture) reminds me of Tui-Na massage theory that working from head to toe is for helps to sedate/disperse excess Qi while moving upward is more nourishing and tonifying for Qi deficiency.

Anyways, i made these screen shots for myself to have some warm-ups and stretching to do from sitting in an office all day. I like how it starts with legs and my legs feel stronger from it.



Two person pre-push hands drills:

people should be able to right click and "save image as" to keep a copy of the images for themselves if they wish. (at least for PC users)