Yang Family Tai Chi Discussion Board

I am wondering if kicks can be classified under bump/shoulder move as this move invovles shoulders, hips, chest, back, thighs, knee and shin. shouldn't the kicks in general be included in this or am i missin something......

It seems like there are variations between schools/traditions such that there is no consensus for defining the standard energies in Taijiquan. My personal view is that the feet correspond to the hands; the knees with the elbows; the hips with the shoulders. Therefore, Zhou would include both elbows and knees, and Kao would include both shoulders and hips (actually the entire torso including also the back, the chest, and even the head, etc.). To me, Zhou and Kao describe the use of different sections of the body to express energies. When applying energies with the feet, I would then classify them the same as if those energies were expressed through the hands.

Dragon X,
My personal opinion, which is worth just about what you paid for it, is; Not usually but they could be expressed that way.
Sort of ambiguous, I know, but that's the very nature of Tai Chi Chuan.
The way I see it, which is just a tiny peek through a small window into a very large room admittedly, is that most of the time kicks would not be considered as "bump" energy but they could be used for that purpose if needed.
Which is to say that to my way of thinking "Kao", or "bump", (I have never much cared for "shoulder" as a definition of Kao, I much prefer bump as it leaves no confusion about where you can express Kao energy, I've actually met some folks who think you can only Kao with your shoulder because of that usage) is generally used for a couple of purposes; rooting myself and shaking the root of my opponent. These can be done at the same time or separately, according to situational need.
Again, I'm deliberately using vague terminology here as it is impossible to limit the use of any of the energies to simple, cut and dried definitions most of the time. Their uses are varied and easily altered to meet the need required by current circumstances.
All that said, Kao is vital to the kicking process. I don't see how you could perform a kick without using kao.
However I don't feel it would be generally accurate to call most kicks a use of "kao" energy.
I see them, mostly, as using Push or Press depending on the type of kick you're doing.

Just this guys opinion.

Bob

Hi,
How about this for kick....Happy Holy Days and or a Merry Christmas to you, Mr Bob, PDasek, and Dragon X, the three wise men.
yslim, wishing the Taiji Spirit

Yes , happy new year to all and thanx for commenting. A small window in a large room indeed. taijiQuan just gets deeper and deeper. neva realli looked at a kick as a push or a press b4 but it makes alot of sense. and i agree that the energies are hard to define. cause i have been noticing how a rollbax Quickly becomes a pulldown.

Thanx you all for teaching me and may 2015 and the year ov the sheep see all you all's TaijiQuan improve

P.S. -Sorry i did not respond sooner but my internet has been down since i 1st posted this.................

DragonX,
Rollback can also transform into Split, or Pluck, or...
Any of them. Even another Rollback.
Each named "posture", even those named after a primary energy, expresses multiple energies and each of those expressions of energy contains the necessity that the energy currently being expressed is ready to change into something else at any time.
Inside of the named "posture" Rollback you will find expressions of Ward Off, Press, Bump, Split...
OK, again all of them.
That's how Yin/Yang works, it's very nature is that it's always changing which is why it's so difficult to "name" which energy is being used "right now". Because... if you're doing it right they all are.
Just because Rollback is being expressed as the "named" energy doesn't mean that's the only energy being used during the movement. Actually there's a lot going on in the background, an entire range of entirely necessary expressions of all the other energies all at the same time. They're used to support and even enhance the major named energy, Rollback.
Where are they?
To find them all you have to do is start looking.
I'm just starting to find most of them.
I have a long way to go.
I need more practice.

Bob

Wow, Wow, and Double Wow. Thanx Bob,that not onli is totalli believable but it explains a lot ov things. And you are not the onli one who needs more practice. Whew ! Taiji just gets deeper and deeper, i just came across two things i saw on you tube that confirm what you said, but you opened my eyes wider still and you cleared up some other things for me that will have me watchin the form more closely. Thanx you Bob for opening up my eyes, tho' i feel they are still not fulli opened yet.

Hi dragon x,

Would you be able to post the youtube links here. I am sure the members are interested to see and understand more.

thks
Cheers,
UniTaichi

Hi Unitaichi,

Would love to post the links except ;
1 i do not know how to post links
2 i did not bookmark the page
3 cannot remember the name ov the actual video(s) i was lookin at

however if i do come across them i will do my best to post them

Hello again, Unitaichi, & ani1 else who may be interested,

i found one of the videos you have to wait or skip ahead to about 6:05 to see him do the form.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cAzhoxXdDw i hope the link works