Yang Family Tai Chi Discussion Board

Click the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ6WTpjpX0I

Hi all,
I have practiced my mindfulness via TaiChi for years. The results are quite impressive to me. Here above is the link to share with you about my practice video. I tried not to use main stream contest forms.

There are several reasons:
(1) Contest forms emphasize too much on external postures instead of the balance of both the internal and the external.
(2) If you watch Cheng Man-Ching (Taichi master) video, you can tell he won't be able to earn the Taichi contest prize because we expect everyone do the same external posture and those movements emphasize too much to external instead of inner world. He might fail the contest if he attends the contest now.
(3). Mindfulness practice applies to Taichi can raise Taichi from exercise, fighting, body & mind integration up to further level.

You are welcome to share your opinion regarding how you practice your TaiChi.

Jeff

Jeff Zen1 wrote:Click the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ6WTpjpX0I

Hi all,
I have practiced my mindfulness via TaiChi for years. The results are quite impressive to me. Here above is the link to share with you about my practice video. I tried not to use main stream contest forms.

There are several reasons:
(1) Contest forms emphasize too much on external postures instead of the balance of both the internal and the external.
(2) If you watch Cheng Man-Ching (Taichi master) video, you can tell he won't be able to earn the Taichi contest prize because we expect everyone do the same external posture and those movements emphasize too much to external instead of inner world. He might fail the contest if he attends the contest now.
(3). Mindfulness practice applies to Taichi can raise Taichi from exercise, fighting, body & mind integration up to further level.

You are welcome to share your opinion regarding how you practice your TaiChi.

Jeff

Greetings!
I believe that after a long time practice of Taiji will lead one into the mindfulness. The balance will be integrated by both the internal mind and external postures. IMO The postures cannot be executed without the internal influence of the mind.

Cheng Man-Ching learnt Taiji from the Yang family but he like to invent his own style and still call it the Yang style. However, I don't see his style resembles the Yang style what soever.

IMMHO The mindfulness is developed within Taiji rather then it was excluded from Taiji. The practice of Taiji enhance the ability of the mind to be more alert and increase the sensitivity of our five senses. The improvement of the movements to be more smooth and elegant is the mindfulness which was resulted from the diligent practice of Taiji. In other words, the practice of Taiji trains to mind to control all the body cells to perform the body movement. The mind has to tell the body what and how to execute the next move.

Thanks for the reply. You are very good to know the way Cheng-Man-Ching practice his Taichi.
I am glad to hear that you also recognize mindfulness is important when practice Taichi. Not many people recognize that.
It is a a ght direction to go for.

Below is from WIKI:
Mindfulness involves intentionally bringing one's attention to the internal and external experiences occurring in the present moment. It can be developed through the practice of meditation, which can be defined as the intentional self-regulation of attention from moment to moment. Meditative practices in the Buddhist tradition are a popular way to develop the practice of meditation. The term "mindfulness" is derived from the Pali-term sati which is an essential element of Buddhist practice, including vipassana, satipaṭṭhāna and anapanasati. The modern movement of mindfulness was appropriated from ancient Buddhist roots.

Greetings Jeff,

I was puzzled and a little bemused by your comment, "I tried not to use main stream contest forms.". If you have been cherry-picking elements of the forms used in 'Taiji competitions' and have not been taught by a competent Taiji teacher, it may perhaps explain why you seem to be excited by your 'discovery' of mindfulness 'via' the practice of Taiji. Setting aside the rationale for 'Taiji competitions', the practice of Taiji has deep roots in Taoist philosophy, which pre-dates Buddhist philosophy. As you are no doubt aware, it is about balance and harmony, yin and yang. As ChiDragon rightly states the practice of Taiji expands the senses, it integrates and harmonizes the internal and external, it develops, enhances and focuses the mind and spirit. The aspect of 'mindfulness' is only one of a number of different aspects in Taiji. Others include the awareness and harnessing of 'qi', the mobilisation and use of 'jin', 'rooting', affirming the spirit (shen), loosening and relaxing (song), opening and unblocking the energy pathways, etc. Many on this forum have been practicing and studying Taiji for many years and decades, and continue to do so. It is truly a treasure.

Take care,
Frank

Jeff Zen1 wrote: Below is from WIKI:
Mindfulness involves intentionally bringing one's attention to the internal and external experiences occurring in the present moment. It can be developed through the practice of meditation, which can be defined as the intentional self-regulation of attention from moment to moment. Meditative practices in the Buddhist tradition are a popular way to develop the practice of meditation. The term "mindfulness" is derived from the Pali-term sati which is an essential element of Buddhist practice, including vipassana, satipaṭṭhāna and anapanasati. The modern movement of mindfulness was appropriated from ancient Buddhist roots.

Thank you very much for quoting your source. This quote is too broad for the definition the modern movement of mindfulness. As fchai has pointed out. There is a vast difference in philosophy between Taoism and Buddhism. The word "intentional" is not what a Taoist would use. A Taoist would rather use the word "unintentional".

You see, the Taoist philosophy was evolved by a term wu wei(無為). It was defined by Laozi in his Tao Te Ching as "Take no action which interfere with the course of Nature" or "Let Nature take its course."

In the practice of Taiji, all the health benefits will be fallen into place in a natural way. It improves one's breathing, internal healing, muscle toning and strength and mindfulness. These things are all imminent, naturally, without the awareness of the practitioner. During the Taiji practice, the body will go through an internal body scan for any illness and cure it by self healing. The internal scan takes place without being realized by the owner of the body. So to speak! What all these come to is Nature has taken its course.

In your video, your mindfulness was acquired from within of your diligent practice. Rather than it was from without.

Happy practicing!
Let Nature take its course.

Greetings,
My mindfulness practice is based on 解深密經 and Satipatthana. They were written over 2000 years. Since this word is derived from them, I think the practice method is close to its original style. It is belonged to Buddhism system.
The buddhism spends his/her life time and many lifes to practice mindfulness.

I use Taichi practice to practice my moving mindfulness more than just competition and health. Walking mindfulness is not as attractive as Taichi because more ingredients inside Taichi.

The reason I prefer not to emphasize too much to competition form is becasue after we learnt the forms then we need to pay less attention to external forms and shift attention gradually more to inner side then aware the body and mind feeling at present time.

Thanks for the sharing.

Jeff

Greetings ChiDragon,
Sorry to address "wu wei(無為) late". I have some experiences about wu wei(無為) to look for your comments. Whether you have the same perience to practice Taichi? If possible, maybe you can help to translate some of the terms to English.

There are two kinds of the mindfulness (觀). One is 假想觀. Another one is 如實觀.

For假想觀, the typical practice adapted for Taichi is "以意導氣, 以氣行身, 以氣催形”.

For如實觀, adapted to Taichi would be not to use Yi(意) to induce and guide the Chi(氣). Then how to get the Chi when practice Taichi if not to use Yi? 如實觀 practice is to first fully relax body and keep the mind calm down & peaceful. Fully aware the 前5識 (Eye,ear,nose,tongue,body) and the sixth 識. It is not easy to explain it in short statement. However,the Chi generated naturally in full body instead of intentionally induced by Yi like 假想觀. Once Chi is generated then the rest of以氣行身 & 以氣催形 are the chain reaction results. Because it is not to intentionally induce the Chi, it is 無為. Hoever, the Chi is naturally generated. It is now Daoism “無為而卻又是無所不為”.

假想觀 is the mainstream Taichi practice method. It can be effective within short time to achieve certain level. This method has its ceiling limitation if want raise to higher level later, the boundary is there. If no intention to go beyond competition and health purposes, then no difference and no need to go for 如實觀. For Buddhism system, if practice via假想觀 first then eventually he/she needs to go for如實觀.

如實觀 adapted for Taichi is rare to public I think. It is pure my personal preference and experimental practice. I use it to bridge Taichi to other fields (such as Daoism and Buddhism systems). It enable me to go for much further from pure Taichi. No boundary line exists there.

I just wander whether you or anyone does try this way and how is the result and the feeling so far.

Jeff Zen1 wrote:Greetings ChiDragon,
Sorry to address "wu wei(無為) late". I have some experiences about wu wei(無為) to look for your comments. Whether you have the same perience to practice Taichi? If possible, maybe you can help to translate some of the terms to English.

...... Because it is not to intentionally induce the Chi, it is 無為. Hoever, the Chi is naturally generated. It is now Daoism “無為而卻又是無所不為”.

I just wander whether you or anyone does try this way and how is the result and the feeling so far.

Greetings! Jeff

Nothing is ever too late. It is either happens or not. Perhaps soon or later it will happen.

Anyway "wu wei(無為) is 不妄為 which means no hasty action.
Wuwei is also include all the meanings below:
1. being natural
2. no abusive action
3. no interruption
4. let it be
5. Let Nature take its course
6. be neutual
7. leave it alone
8. Let it happen be itself

If humans build a dam on the river to interrupt the water flow, then, it is considered not to be wu wei. It is because the action was interfering the course of nature. The definition of wu wei is not to interfere with Nature but let Nature take its course. Any interference or interruption of any kind is considered not to be we wei.

“無為而卻又是無所不為”
"Being wu wei is also means that nothing which cannot be done." In other words, one is being natural, then there is nothing which cannot be accomplished.


In regard to your application of Buddhist philosophy vs Tai Chi, I have no further comments and be wu wei about it. Indeed, I have no intention to interfere with your practice and beliefs. . BTW Tai Chi is a Taoist practice for health and longevity.


Wu Wei Taoist
無為道人

ChiDragon wrote:BTW Tai Chi is a Taoist practice for health and longevity.

ChiDragon,

Well, you may practice Taijiquan as a Daoist, but that does not mean that Taijiquan is exclusively Daoist. As I understand it, in Chinese culture there is a mixing of Daoist, Buddhist, and other systems of belief. The Taijiquan that came from the Chen village (that was passed on to Yang style; unless you believe that it was created by Zhang Sanfeng) has Buddhist references. One such reference is in the posture name ‘Buddha's Warrior Attendant [Jin Gang - Vajrapani] Pounds Mortar’ (金刚捣碓, Jin gang dao zhui). Another is the reference to the "Four Buddha Warrior Attendants" which refers to Chen Xiaowang, Chen Zhenglei, Wang Xian and Zhu Tiancai who are the Chen stylists that became the ‘roaming ambassadors’ that promote Chen style Taijiquan. If I remember correctly, from a workshop a long time ago, Chen Zhenlei stated that Taijiquan was neither Daoist nor Buddhist (that Taijiquan is not religious).

I do not know where you may have gotten the impression that Taijiquan excludes Buddhism. I also do not know why you chose to ignore the martial side of Taijiquan in the above quoted statement. While I agree that Taijiquan contains many things that fit nicely with Daoist systems of belief and practice, I do not think that this means that Taijiquan, in general, is associated with any religious practices. It is perfectly fine for you to personally practice Taijiquan as a Daoist practice, but I would disagree with the quoted statement of yours.

DPasek wrote:

ChiDragon wrote:BTW Tai Chi is a Taoist practice for health and longevity.

ChiDragon,

1. Well, you may practice Taijiquan as a Daoist, but that does not mean that Taijiquan is exclusively Daoist. As I understand it, in Chinese culture there is a mixing of Daoist, Buddhist, and other systems of belief.

2. The Taijiquan that came from the Chen village (that was passed on to Yang style; unless you believe that it was created by Zhang Sanfeng) has Buddhist references.

3. If I remember correctly, from a workshop a long time ago, Chen Zhenlei stated that Taijiquan was neither Daoist nor Buddhist (that Taijiquan is not religious).

4. I do not know where you may have gotten the impression that Taijiquan excludes Buddhism. I also do not know why you chose to ignore the martial side of Taijiquan in the above quoted statement. While I agree that Taijiquan contains many things that fit nicely with Daoist systems of belief and practice, I do not think that this means that Taijiquan, in general, is associated with any religious practices. It is perfectly fine for you to personally practice Taijiquan as a Daoist practice, but I would disagree with the quoted statement of yours.

Greetings! DPasek
1. Well, from my statement may sound like that Taijiquan is exclusively Daoist. However, I did not say that but I must say this. As a true Taoist, it is a requirement to practice Taijiquan and Qigong regardless of what form it is.

In the Chinese culture, during the Tang dynasty, there was a big conflict between the Taoism and Buddhism. Hence, the ruler ordered that all the religions to get together and iron out their differences by yielding and combine the religions to have peace and harmony. In order to understand each religion, one must learn by distinguishing them.

2. I have no argument about that.

3. Same as item #1.

4. Well, It was well known that Taoists practice Taijiquan and Qigong for health reasons. As far as I understand, Buddhist do practice many forms of Qigong; but have you seen the majority of Buddhist practice Taijiquan. However, if one understand that the goal of a Taoist is to have good health and longevity, then, the material side is insignificant. Even though, it comes with the package. FYI Some people practice Taijiquan for the martial side which is excluded them as Taoists.

BTW I am speaking as a Wuwei Taoist and practice such. Perhaps, I may be inclusive or exclusive which may not be in syn with the thinking of others. Please excuse my philosophical ignorance.

If you had stated that, for you, Taiijiquan is a Daoist practice for health and longevity, then I probably would not have bothered to post my comments.

It seems like the Buddhist tradition may reconcile the practice of martial arts with their peaceful philosophy better than the Daoists do, if your statement is accurate:

ChiDragon wrote:...FYI Some people practice Taijiquan for the martial side which is excluded them as Taoists.

BTW I am speaking as a Wuwei Taoist and practice such. Perhaps, I may be inclusive or exclusive which may not be in syn with the thinking of others. Please excuse my philosophical ignorance.

As for me, I am as I am; I see no need for being named either a Daoist or as being excluded as a Daoist. But you likely know better than I what Daoists think of names or labels.

ChiDragon,

Since you are in California (and you are a Wu Wei Daoist), perhaps this would interest you. Huang Hao Fu seems to be a Daoist adept as well as practicing combat Taijiquan (having accepted challenges in China), and gave a seminar in San Francisco last year:

“When the student is ready, a teacher appears.” Are YOU ready? Get ready for some serious training with Master Huang Hao Fu, a martial arts champion from mainland China and a Daoist/Taoist adept! He will be conducting an introductory seminar into Daoist martial arts. If you’re interested in learning TRUE combat, if you’re interested in improving your physical health, mind, and spirit, this seminar could be a defining moment in your path of discovery.

Part 1: Taoist Internal Energy Cultivation exercises for health and longevity will be taught to participants. For those of you who lack energy, are out of condition, or have health problems, this could very well be the most important part of the seminar.

Part 2: Old World Kung Fu. Master Huang Hao Fu will teach the Chinese combative arts of old, before such practice was banned by the government, forcing the art to go underground some 400 years ago. He will show and explain the differences between the Kung Fu of that age and the Kung Fu of modern times. Master Huang Hao Fu is the 3rd generation disciple of Master He Fa-Ke, the great master of combat Chen Tai Chi. He is the "inside student” of Master Chen Jiao-Hui, the son of Chen Fa-Ke. Master Huang has dedicated his life to learning and applying internal martial arts, chi development, and traditional Chinese Taoist healing methods. Like the masters of old, he roamed his country (China) interacting with and accepting challenges from other masters in order to find and arrive at the “truth in H2H combat”.

When: June 14, 2015 Sunday 3 – 4 PM (PLEASE NOTE DATE CORRECTION)
Where: Hwa Rang Kwan Martial Arts Center, 90 Welsh Street, SF, CA 94107
Admission: $50 cash only at the door. For more information, please contace
Alex France Sr. Cell Phone: 1-415-623-6077 Email Address: AlexFranceSr@gmail.com

He seems to be currently teaching regular classes in California (as posted on April 1, 2016):

Every Sunday, beginning 11 AM until whenever,, at Kennedy Park, Hayward, California (This would be in the East Bay of the Greater San Francsco Bay Area)
Master Huang Hao Fu will be holding classes in internal energy cultivation and the old "Solders' Kung Fu".
Anyone on this forum who happens to be in the area is invited to drop by and say hello. You'll be welcome to watch or participate.

I enjoyed watching your form. You do seem to have found a sequence more conducive to internal flow. Sometimes I feel the Yang form has aspects where it is difficult to maintain chi. I do not personally necessarily consider that a problem however. Some movements are more sensitive to chi such as cloud hands and the entire grasp birds tail group, in particular press and roll back. Sometimes when I want to return to chi focused work, I will either choose certain movements, or make my own Yang based patterns. After I have improved my chi sense, I then try to connect it to the more resistive movements.