Yang Family Tai Chi Discussion Board

Practical Use Of Tai Chi Chuan: It's Application and Variations by Yang Sau Chung (published by Chu, Gin Soon)

For anyone interested in Yang Cheng Fu's oldest son's book, it has now become available (after quite some time) again. This is the third printing, which also includes some new Yang family photo's (Siu Pang, Siu Yuan, as well as disciple pic of Gin Soon) and some new additional text as well. Get it here...

http://www.gstaichi.org/english/applicationBook.php


[This message has been edited by tccstudent (edited 04-15-2006).]

Greetings tcc,

Cool! I'm ordering this today. Let me know if there's any plan to ever reprint the Chinese version too.

Take care,
Louis

Yeah, my order is in the mailbox too. Anyone know if the original Chinese is included?

If a chinese language version ever becomes available I will certainly let you know, but I don't think that will happen anytime soon. The book does have the names of the forms in Mandarin I believe, and also the Yang family "13" rules (as opposed to the 10 we always here about).

From what I understand, another interesting thing about Yang Sau Chung, that is not too well known, is that he created an application form which he did teach and some of his "variations" in this book may be reflections of that form.

I changed my email address, hence the name change. Just testing my new password as well. Enjoy the book fella's

Greetings TCC,

You wrote that in Yang Shouzhong’s book, ‘The book does have the names of the forms in Mandarin I believe, and also the Yang family "13" rules (as opposed to the 10 we always here about).’

That’s interesting about the thirteen vs. ten essentials. Yang Chengfu’s Essence and Applications book also notes thirteen rather than ten important essentials, and ordered them differently. I’ve assembled a correlation list below with the list as it appears in Yang Chengfu’s book introduction, with the order of the essentials from the standard “Ten Essentials” in parentheses. Items not appearing in the Ten Essentials have an asterisk. Note that item #5 mentions loosening the kua, whereas the Ten Essentials mentions only the waist. The Ten Essentials was recorded and standardized by Chen Weiming. The “Thirteen” list was most likely an earlier version.

Generally speaking, there are thirteen important points in Taijiquan. These are:
1. Sink the shoulders and drop the elbows; (5)
2. Contain the chest and pull up the back; (2)
3. The qi sinks to the dantian; (*)
4. An intangible energy lifts the crown of the head; (1)
5. Loosen the waist and kua; (3*)
6. Distinguish empty and full; (4)
7. Upper and lower follow one another; (7)
8. Use mind intent, not strength; (6)
9. Inner and outer are united; (8)
10. Intention and qi interact; (*)
11. Seek stillness in movement; (10)
12. Movement and stillness are united; and, (*)
13. Proceed evenly from posture to posture. (9)

Does the order and content of the list in Yang Shouzhong’s book correspond to the above?

Take care,
Louis

From the book, and in his own words (1973). The thirteen guidelines are.....

1. Set the shoulders down, and lower the elbows.
2. Hollow the chest and raise the back.
3. Keep the energy leisurely down to the navel psychic-centre (3" below the navel) by hollowing the chest and loosening the waist. The navel psychic-centre is the place where the energy is cultivated and reserved. After a long time of practice, the potential energy forms a forceful impetus which, when required, can be sent out to attack and to defend.
4. Keep the head upright and the body well-balanced.
5. Loosen the waist.
6. Shift the centre of gravity as required
7. Every part of the body is well co-ordinated.
8. Do not exert force, but the idea is there.
9. Action and idea should be in harmony
10. The idea and energy should be in agreement.
11. Action is included in inactivity
12. Action and inactivity should be well coupled.
13. All movement should be performed in rhythm and follow one another evenly without any jerky motion, as silk is drawn from cocoons.


For the most part, they seem the same Louis. Some different wordings are used but I think the meanings are very similiar. Interestingly enough, the different wordings from these two sources may help some get a clearer idea of these rules.

[This message has been edited by tccstudent_usa (edited 04-17-2006).]

Greetings TCC,

Thank you for posting the list that appears in Yang Shouzhong’s book. It makes sense that it would follow the list from his father’s book fairly closely. Yang Shouzhong was responsible for doing a reprint of the original Essence and Applications book in 1948 in southern China. As for the different wording, most of that can be attributed to differences in the English translations. That is why I would like to have a copy of the original Chinese version of his book. Do we know who did the English translation?

Take care,
Louis

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Louis Swaim:
<B>Greetings TCC,

Thank you for posting the list that appears in Yang Shouzhong’s book. It makes sense that it would follow the list from his father’s book fairly closely. Yang Shouzhong was responsible for doing a reprint of the original Essence and Applications book in 1948 in southern China. As for the different wording, most of that can be attributed to differences in the English translations. That is why I would like to have a copy of the original Chinese version of his book. Do we know who did the English translation?

Take care,
Louis</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting question. I've never thought about that before, but I will see what I can find out. In the meantime (just speculating), if Chu Gin Soon was the publisher, it may have been someone that he knew, or possibly even his son Vincent who is quite literate in Chinese and English.

At this time I really don't know for sure, but I will try to get some confirmation on the translation into English.



[This message has been edited by tccstudent_usa (edited 04-17-2006).]

Tonight I asked about the translation, but all anyone remembers is that is was done in Hong Kong; nobody seems to recall whom it was exactly.

Thanks for posting the thirteen main points of Yang Sau Chung. For those who will unlikely get the book it's valuable information. The language of translation is quite distinguished from the present standard but still nice and interesting.

" The navel psychic-centre is the place where the energy is cultivated and reserved."

It would be interesting to compare his teaching with what Professor Cheng spoke on that subject.


Take care,

Yuri


[This message has been edited by Yuri Snisarenko (edited 04-18-2006).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by tccstudent_usa:
Tonight I asked about the translation, but all anyone remembers is that is was done in Hong Kong; nobody seems to recall whom it was exactly.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi TCC. Thanks for asking, anyway. I'm looking forward to reading the book!

Take care,
Louis

My copy arrived today. It's a slim volume, 42 pages of text and photos not counting the prefaces. The material is somewhat similar to what Yang Zhenduo has in the application section of his books. The photos are reproduced well and it looks like there is some very good application info in there. He gives two applications per move. English only.

Indeed, I wish there were more also. It's a darn shame Sau Chung wasn't around longer and he was so reclusive by nature. He was quite the accomplished master in his time. Still, the meat of the book is really in the apps and photo's really; as well as the four corner commentary at the end. It's a nice little book to add to the collection of Yang family practices. As far as I know, those photo's are not available anywhere else publically, and the variation of every app is always of interest. I liked the fact that Sau Chung always stressed hollowing the chest to sink the weight during the app commentary.

[This message has been edited by tccstudent_usa (edited 04-25-2006).]

Greetings,

I got to look through a copy of the Chinese edition of this book a few years ago that Fong Ha showed me. I’ve been wanting a copy ever since. Fong Ha was a student of both Dong Yingjie and Yang Shouzhong.

I received my copy yesterday, and I'm looking forward to delving into the explanations. The photos at the top of each page, showing Yang Chengfu demonstrating with a partner, appeared in Yang Chengfu’s 1931 book, Taijiquan shiyongfa (Application Methods of Taijiquan). The explanation narratives accompanying the photos in that early book are very sparse and difficult to follow. The explanations in Yang Shouzhong’s book seem to be more developed, and are much clearer. Yang Shouzhong’s innovation was the addition of the photos of himself and a partner showing a “follow-up action” or an alternate application below the original Yang Chengfu photos.

The partner photos of Yang Chengfu are reprinted in Douglas Wile’s T’ai-chi Touchstones, but they are not accompanied with the shiyongfa explanations, which have not been translated, to my knowledge.

The photos of Yang Shouzhong are quite excellent! It’s a real pleasure to see his stances, posture, and in particular his hands and wrists—in the way he contacts the opponent. His skill is very apparent in those photos!

Take care,
Louis