Yang Family Tai Chi Discussion Board

I heard that Douglas Wiles who translated and made the book- Yang Family Secret transmissions omitted the Yang family lineage in his book. does anyone have a copy?

Also Barbara Davis omitted the Yang family long fist form from Chen Weimings book Taiji Sword. he was supposed to have that form in the original book written down. but she omitted it.

why,why why??

I found this online for yang family lineage but looks like some people were added- like mario napoli- avi schnider and then some- i doubt theyare really part of the offical yang family lineage-

Founder
Yang Fu Kui , Lu Chan, 1799-1872) Founder
Second Generation
Chen Xiu –Feng
Fu Zhou
Gong Tian Ren
Hsu Yu Sheng
Ling Shan, of Manchu nationality
Quan You ( 1834-1902) Manchu nationality
Wan Chun, of Han nationality
Wang Jiao-Yu (1836-1939), Wong Shao Yu
Wang Lan Ting , a court official. His student Li Rui Dong founded the Li Style Tai chi
Wu Ch’eng-ch’ing (1800 styles: Ch’I-yu and Ch’iu-ying)
Wu Juch’ing (1802)
Wu Yu Xiang ,1812-1880, founder of Wu (Hao) Style)
Yang Jian Jian Hou, Chien Hou, 1839-1917) third son
Yang Qi , Feng Hou, , died early?) eldest son
Yang Yu (, Ban Hou , 1837-1892) second son
Third Generation
Chang Ching Ling , Zhang Qin Ling) also a student of Yang Cheng Fu
Chen Hsiu Feng Chen Xia Feng)
Chi De, Chi Te
Gong Rongtian
Guan Bai-yi
Hou De Shan
Hsiung Yan-Hou
Hu Xingzhai
Kuo Lien Ying (1891-1984) continued as Guang Ping style Tai Chi Chuan
Li Chin Lin ( 1860-1920) (also known as the "Sword Saint")
Li Lian Fang
Li Rui –Dong ( 1851 - 1917) continued as Li Style taiji
Li Yi Yu (, 1832 -1892)
Ling Shan () also a student of Yang Lu Chan
Liu De Kuan)
Liu Sheng Kui
Lu Dian Chen (, 1886 - 1948) also a student of Yang Cheng Fu
Niu Lian Yuan ()
Pu Lun Bei Zi (a Ming prince)
Quan You (全佑, 1834-1902) also a student of Yang Lu Chan
Shou Yu Sheng ()
Si Xingsan
Tian Zhao-lin (Tian Shaolin, Tian Shao Xian,, 1890 - ) . He also studied with Yang Shao Hao and Yang Cheng Fu.
Wang Chonglu ()
Wang Jiao-Yu (1836-1939) also a student of Yang Lu Chan
Wang Ji-chen
Wang Maozhai (
Wang Xiao Yun ), Wang Long Yi
Wang Xing –wu
Wang Yongquan (1904-1987)
Wu Jianquan (, 1870-1942) son continued as Wu style Tai Chi Chuan
Wu Meng Xia
Wu Yu Xiang (,1812-1880) also a student of Yang Lu Chan.
Xu Dai Chuai ( )
Xu Yu -Shen (, 1879 –1945)
Yang Sao Lin () son trained with Yang Ban Hou ?
Yang Shou Hou (nephew) trained with his father Yang Chien Hou
Yang Zhang Qing , (Sau Chin, ,Yang Cheng Fu, , 1883-1936), third son
Yang Zhao Pen ( Ling Xiao, , 1872-1930) son
Yang Zhao Xiong (Yang Shao Hou, , 1862-1930)
Yang Zou Yuan (1875-1938) , Yang Zou Pun, second son
Zhang Qin Lin ( )
Zhang Xin Yi
Zhang Ying Tang
Zhang Yu

Fourth Generation
Cao Lian Fang
Chang Hung-k'uei
Chang Yiu Chun (1899-1987, trained from 1911 – 1929) cousin ?
Chen Pan-lin (), 1900-1967) also trained with Wu Chien Chuan, Hsu Yu Sheng, Chi Te
Chen Wei-Ming (a student of Yang Cheng Fu)
Chen Wei-Ming, ( , 1881-1958) also studied with Sun Lu Tan
Chen Yen-ling ()
Chen Yen-ling (, Yearning K. Chen, Chen Kung (?) , 1906 - ??) also studied with Tian Zhao-Lin
Chen Yet Fu ()
Chen You Long (, 1875-1928)
Chen Yue-Bo also known as “1875-1928).
Chen Zhii Yuan ()
Cheng Man Ching. He is more known as a student of Yang Cheng Fu
Cheng Man-ching (Zheng Manqing)
Cheng Man-Ching , 1900 - 1975)
Chiang Yun-chun also a student of Kuo Lien Ying
Chiang Yun-chun also a student of Wang Ji-chen
Cho Siu Wai also a student of Ip Tai Mut
Chou Ping
Choy Heng Peng (1886 - 1957)
Chu Yu hoi ()
Continued as Wu Hao style tai chi chuan
Cui Yi Shi
Cui Yi Shi (1890-1970)
Dong Lin Chei
Dong Run Fan ( )
Dong Runfang
Dong Ying Jie (Tung Ying Chieh, , 1888-1961)
Fu Chen Sung (1881-1953, not really a student, a contempary)
Fu Zhongwen (, 1907-1994). Also a student of Yang Zou Yuan.
Gu Lisheng
Guo Ruizhou (a noted Fanzi master)
Hao He, also named Wei Zhen (，1849 - 1920).
Ho Chikwang (1905 - ,taught in Evanston, Il)
Hsiung Yang Ho (1886-1984)
Hsu Yu Sen
Hu Yaozhen
Hu Yuen Chou (1906-1997) also a Choy Li Fut expert, studied first with Chen Wei Ming
Ji Tun Leing
Jiang Yan Jie ()
Jiang Yu Kun (Jiang Ting Yuan, , Jiang Yu-k'un, , 1913-1980)
Jiang Yu Kun also studied with Yang Cheng Fu
Lai Hok Sun
Li Derun
Li Di Fan ()
Li Dian Chen
Li Fuyuan
Li Hun Do ()
Li Jian-Hua
Li Shou Ch’ien () Li Shouqian (Taiwan)
Li Shou De ()
Li Ya Qian (, Li Chun Nian , Li Ya Xuan, 1894 - 1976)
Li Ya Xuan
Li Ying Xuan (, 1906-1995)
Li Ying Xue ()
Li Yue (in Kwangtung)
Li Yulong (Hebei)
Lin Du-Ying
Liu Dong Han ()
Liu Jianhua
Liu Pao Chun or Liu Jian Chuan
Liu Xi Zhan (Liu Xizhe)
Liu Yaozhen
Liu Zhiliang
Lu Dian Chen (, 1886 - 1991) also a student of Yang Chien Hou
Lu Zi Ling
Ma Run Zhi ()
Ma Runzhi
Ma Tak Yun ()
Miao Lian
Nen Tsung Min
Niu Chun-Ming (, 1881-1961)
Niu Jing Kan ()
Peter Kwok
Pu Bing-Ru (1908 - ) also a student of Ye Da Mi.
Pu Yu (Bingru)
Qin Zhong Bao
Shen Jiazhen
Shi Cheng Zhi ()
Shi Dao Mei
Su Qi )
Su Qigeng
Sun Jian Ying ()
Tian Yinjia
Tian Zhaolin (, 1891-1959).
Tian Zuo Lin)
Tseng Ju Pai ( ,1900-1995), Tseng Chiu-Yien, Tseng Chao-Jen
Tue Ei Sher
Wang Peisheng
Wang Shanzhi
Wang Xu Dong ()
Wang Yan Nian () from Shan his
Wang Yen Nien ( )
Wang Yen-nien also a student of Zhang Qin-Ling
Wang Yongquan () son.
Wang Zi He () Also a student of Li Shou Ch'ien.
Wei Shuren
Wu Hui chuan (), Wu Jiang-Chuan, Wu Zhen Hai () ( ? - 1937)
Wu Kong Yi
Wu Meng Xia () also train in Bagua and a student of Cui Yi Shi (1890-1970)
Wu Tu Nan ()
Wu Wan Lin ()
Wu Wei huan
Xian Yue Chuan ( )
Xiong Yanghe (Taiwan)
Xu Yu shan ()
Yan Zhong-Kui, Yan Yue Chuan ()
Yang Cong (Kuei Cheng, 1908-1976) Daughter
Yang Kai Ru () grandson ???.He is also a student of Tian Zhao-lin
Yang Ling-Xiao
Yang Shou Chung (, Yang Zhen Ming,, 1909-1985), eldest son
Yang Zhan-Dow (, Yang Zhenduo, 1926 - ? ), third son
Yang Zhao Pen ( Ling Xiao, , 1872-1930) son of Yang Ban Hao
Yang Zhen Sheng (Chen-sheng, ) son of Yang Shao Hao
Yang Zheng Guo (, Chung Kwok, 1928 - ), fourth son
Yang Zhen-Ji (, 1922- ? ), second son
Ye Da Mi (), Ip Tai Mut also a student of Yang Cheng Fu
Ye Da Mi (), Ip Tai Mut also studied with Tian Zhao-lin
You Zhi Xue ()
Yuanxiu (Wang Bo) studied with many teachers
Yue Huanzhi
Yuen Yua Chuan
Zang Zhao-ran
Zhang Bao Feng ()
Zhang Qiang )
Zhang Qin Ling (, , Chang Ching Ling).
Zhang Yu
Zhang Zhao Ping also a student of Tian Zhao-Lin
Zhang Zhirou
Zhao Bin (赵斌, 1906 - 1999)
Zhao Ling
Zhen Sheng (振&#22768
Zheng Zuo Ping also a student of Yang Cheng Fu
Zhu Gui-Ting (

part II- from http://www.geocities.com/ottawakungfu/2 ... _Yang2.htm

Fifth Generation
Bai Hua (Peh Hua)
Cao Shu Wei ( 1934 - )
Chan Ning )
Chang Dsu Yao (also a student of Liu Pao hun and Chang Ching Po)
Chen Jun Yan
Chen Lung Xiang
Chen Yun Qing () son
Chen Zhuo Zhen
Chen, William C.C. (1935 - ?? )
Cheng Lu (started Tao Chuan Tao)
Chi Chiang Tao (1920-1994)
Chia Siew Pang
Cho Siu-Wai
Choy Kam Man (1924-1994) son
Choy, Howard (US)
Chu Gin Soon (1932 - )
Chu King-hung (1939- ,Europe)
Chu, Mary
Chung Yan-Man, Raymond Y. M. (1913 - ,Vancouver, Canada)
continue as Fu style tai chi
continued as Wu (Hao) Style Tai Chi Chuan
Cooper, Raymond
Cui Zhong Sang ) 1948-
Doc-Fai Wong
Dong Fu Ling (Tung Fu Ling, 1918-1982)
Dzou Tsung Fu
Faigao, Bataan
Faigao, Jane
Fang Ning
Fong Ha (1937 - , SF, US) also a student of Dong Yienjie
Fu Qing Quan, James (, 1971 - ) grandson
Fu Shen Yuan (1931 - ) also a student of Yang Chen Fu
Fu Sheng Yuan (, 1931 - ) son. Now in Australia.
Fu Zheng-Rong (1978-)
Gao Guo
Gibbs, Tam
Gilman, Michael
Gong Zhong Xiang
Gu Liu Xing ()
He Wei Qi
Hsu Fun Yuen (lives in Chicago, IL.)
Hsu Yee-Chung
Hu Yuen Chou (also studied with Yang Cheng Fu)
Hu, George
Huang Shan-wen Also a student of Chen Wei Ming
Huang Sheng Shyan (, 1910-1992)
Huang Wei Lun (Florida) -
student - Jaime Cobb (New Mexico)
Ip Tai-Tak (1929- )
Israel, Stanley (1942-1999)
Kai Sung
Klein, Bob
Kliensmith, Lou
Lai Hok Soon
Langlois, Richard
Lee Xiu-Pak (Lee Siu-Pak, Li Shui-Pak, Lee Chew-Ng, (1910-1982))
Leonard, Ken
Li Min Di (daughter)
Li Shu Dong
Liang Zheng-Yu
Liang, Tung Tsai (1900-2002, Boston)
Lin, Mogen
Liu Kin Hoi
Liu Se-heng (Liu Hsi Heng)
Liu Tong Lu (
Liu, Abraham
Lo, Ben
Lowenthal, Wolf
Lu Gui Rong
MacVane, Myles
Mak Ying Po
Mei Yei Sheng also train with Zhao Bin
Mei Ying Sheng
Montaigue, Erle (Australia)
Newman, Maggie
Ong Zi Chuan
Phillips, Bill
Ping Siang Tao
Pu Bing-Ru (1908 - ) Female, also a student of Yang Chen Fu
Shi Tiao Mei ()
Shou Ren (William) Chen train with Yue in 1941. Died when he was 81 (2003) NY
Smith, Robert
son (1950 - )
Staples, Tuey (St. Louis, MO)
Sun Lu Tang ()
Tan Ching Ngee also a student of Ong Zi Chuan
Tang Wei
Tchoung Ta Tchen also a student of Cheng Man Ching
Tchoung, T.T. also a student of Shi Dao Mei
Wang Je He (王炬(子&#21644 )
Wang Shu Jin (also a Hsing yi, Bagua master)
Wang Tian Lai
Wang Tsing
Wang Tze-Her
Wang Yong Da
Wang Zi He (). Also a student of Lu Dian Chen.
Wang, Daniel Y. (CA)
Watson, Patrick (1935-1992)
Wu Xiao Ping, Grace
Wui Gui Qing (nephew )
Xie Bing Chan
Xu Tingsen
Y. W. Chang Yuan Weil (1916-2002)
Yamasaki, Carol
Yan Fu Ting ()
Yang Ching Feng
Yang De Fang (1952 - ) son
Yang Duo-fong (1947 - ) son
Yang Hong Fang (1969 - ), daughter
Yang Juan Fang (1968 - ), daughter
Yang Jung Fin (1956 - ), daughter
Yang Ma Lee (Di Er, 1952 - ) Daughter in HK
Yang Tai Yee (Mei Lan, 1950- ) Daughter in HK
Yang Xiao Jo (died early) son
Yang Yee Li (Ma Li, 1958 - ) Daughter in HK
Yang Yong Fang (1953 - ) son
Yang Zhi Fang (1959 - ) son
Yap Siew Teng (1918 - 1978)
Yiu Kwong ( ? &#20809
Young, Ed
Yu Wen Mei
Zhang Lu-Ping (1945-1998)
Zhang Mingyu
Zhang Xiang Kai
Zhang Yi Zhong (1921 - )
Zhang Yu
Zhang Zhuoxing (Guizhou) also a student of Gu Lisheng
Zhang Zhuoxing (Guizhou) also a student of You Zhixue
Zhong Guang Tian (
Zhou Yaun Long (* 1927-1998 ) )
Zong Mao San ()
Zong Zi Jian

Sixth Generation
Babin, Michel (Ottawa)
Cartmell, Tim (Garden Grove, CA)
Caruthers, Ann
Chen Chung
Choy, Frank
Chu, Vincent
Chung, Andrew
continued as Sun Style Tai Chi Chuan
Ding Teah Chean, John Ding teaching in the UK
Dong Zen Chen
Dunn, Terry
Emerick, Danny
Fok, Alex
Foo, Chris (Australia)
Frantzis, B. K.
Goh Ewe Hock
Hallander, Jane (1944-2002)
Halstead, Rick
Hennessey, Mark
Horwood, Graham (England)
Hu Wei-yue
Huan Zhang
Jampa Mackenzie Stewart, Rochester T'ai Chi Ch'uan Center
Jing, Quan Shun(Monterey Park, CA)
Kelly, Pat
Kelly, Patrick
Kennedy, Ellen
Kennedy, Len
King, K
Knecht, Ted W.
Lam Kam
Lau Tui
Lau Yiu-Lam, David
Lau, James
Law Lun-Yeung (Bill Law), Australia
Lee Wah Yook
Lee, Arnold
Lee, Daniel (trained in JKD with Bruce Lee)
Leporati, James
Levi, Steve
Li, Terry
Liang He Ching
Loh Thong Poh (1911 - 1983)
Lord, Mark
Lum, Andrew (student of Tung Fu Ling, Hawaii)
Student: William Y.K. Lee
Luth, Chris
Moran, Mike
Napoli, Mario
Ooi Kean Seng (Malaysia)
Robertson, Kayo
Rose, Steve
Schnapp, Michael
Schneiderman, Linda
Schneier, Avi
St. Louis TCC Association.(Tom Krapu et. al.)
Stenson, Mike
Stephen Frankel
Stuart Alve Olson (1950 - )
Suen Tid
Tam, Tom
Tan, Dr H. H.
Tong Yau-Sun (N.S., Canada)
Tucker, Aarvo (England)
Tung Kai Ying
Wang Bo (he trained with many others)
Wang, Henry(Vancouver, BC)
Wee Kee-jin
Williams, Lenzie
Wong Ping Kwong
Wong, Jason J.
Wong,J.K. (Dallas)
Yang Bing (1972 - ), son
Yang Jun (1968 - ), son
Yang Xue Qin (1979 - ), daughter
Yang Yong (1978 - ), son
Yapp Khiong
Yek Sing Ong (Malaysia)
Yiu Guang
Zhang Ji Pei (, Australia)
Zhang Lu-Ping (1945-1998)
Zhang Yi Zhong

Seventh Generation
Anthony Megaro
Bill Bernsen
Bram, Mark Joseph
Cali, Wendy
Chan Wing. He also studied Wu Style in HK.
Cramb, Stephen D.
Feldman, Howard
Khoo Teng Hock
Lau Yiu-Lam, David
Lee, William R.
Rashid, Lorenzo
Schurman, Donald L.
Yang Ya Ning (1992 - ) daughter

MLS,
Go to [url=http://www.yangfamilytaichi.com,]www.yangfamilytaichi.com,[/url] click on Tai Chi Info on the left of the screen, click on Misc., then choose the link to family tree.

Bob

mls_72,

At least 70% of the fifth generation and most of the 6th and 7th generation have elements of falsehood in them. Only the degree is the telling point.

What do we mean by lineage, official lineage or even casual lineage? Loaded words, at a minimum.
Is the casual person who took lessons with a famous teacehr part of that lineage? WHo knows? Then we are all lineage disciples!

Better yet, whose lineage chart are we referring to? Shall we check the present lineage master and realize 90% of those mentioned in the aforementioned 5th, 6th and 7th generations do not exist and are not present per that lineage chart! What is going on?

It all happens for a reason! Each will have to figure out on their own.

Actually, after a certain point, I find these discussions of lineage rather boring. No offense, but isn't it about time we started concentrating on the here and now? Worrying about what Yang Lu Chan did hundreds of years ago is getting tedious at best. What do you guys/girls think?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by tccstudent:
Actually, after a certain point, I find these discussions of lineage rather boring. No offense, but isn't it about time we started concentrating on the here and now? Worrying about what Yang Lu Chan did hundreds of years ago is getting tedious at best. What do you guys/girls think?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Greetings TCCstudent. I think that's excellent advice.

--Louis

TCCstudent,
Well...
Yes and no.
Lineage discussions are rather boring for the most part. That's very true.
And what's important IS the here and now. Also very true.
However, what Yang Lu Chan did a hundred years ago can give us insight into the practice and study of TCC today. As long as we look at historicaly accurate renditions and not the "He could levitate and shoot lightning bolts out of his nostrils" type of stories, that is.
Will it make me a better TCC player? I dunno, but it can't me a worse one.
Looking back is not always a bad thing.

Bob

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by tccstudent:
Actually, after a certain point, I find these discussions of lineage rather boring. No offense, but isn't it about time we started concentrating on the here and now? Worrying about what Yang Lu Chan did hundreds of years ago is getting tedious at best. What do you guys/girls think?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you are right. On the whole, the lineage thing is done to death by people looking to validate their practice.

did anyone see the other questions ??? can anyone guide me toward the information for Yang taiji chang quan?

As for lineage- the whole idea came about from a conversation I have been having with a Michuan yangjia (secret yang style) practitioner. I bought several VCD's and DVD's from China on the topic of Imperial Yang Taijiquan for the reason of collecting rare styles of taijiquan for observation purposes. I love collecting data on Yang taijiquan- thats who I am. So i let my friend Scott who teaches here in the DC area borrow the VCD's to see if the movements- turning, stances, weight distribution, form, ect is similiar to the style of taijiquan he teaches. Well he over intectualizes me that if the Imperial Yang taijiquan guys arent on the official yang list (recongnized by yang family) that was published in china that includes HIS teacher's teacher- Zhang Qilin, well then the Imperial Yang guys- Fu jiechen, Zhai Yingbo, Wang Yong Chen, Xiao Tiesheng, Li Zheng and others arent valid and are coming from a nowhere to justify their rare/secret yang style taijiquan. yada yada yada....

So i would like to see this "list" of offical Yang lineage people through the generations recongnized by the yang family and see if any of these guys are on it. That way my friend MIGHT decide to watch the VCD's and analyze the movements.... or at least have his ego shattered.

To me, the problem of whether he/she is from the direct lineage or otherwise is not as important as the quality of TCC he/she possesses. Of course there is also the question of what constitutes `a direct lineage'? Many had a few lessons with masters from direct lineage and then self-proclaim to be the next generation of direct lineage. The lineage thing has becomes a good marketing credential especially in the US. I've met many so-called direct lineage masters who have low and incomplete TCC skills...so what's the use of lineage? I've known a few who travel to China to train under Cheng XiaoWang for 2 weeks and started marketing themselves as direct disciples of Cheng XiaoWang.

Like Jesus Christ said, judge the tree by the fruits it bear. Judge a master by the skill and students he/she produces...not by whether he/she is lineage or not.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cheefatt taichi:
<B>To me, the problem of whether he/she is from the direct lineage or otherwise is not as important as the quality of TCC he/she possesses. Of course there is also the question of what constitutes `a direct lineage'? Many had a few lessons with masters from direct lineage and then self-proclaim to be the next generation of direct lineage. The lineage thing has becomes a good marketing credential especially in the US. I've met many so-called direct lineage masters who have low and incomplete TCC skills...so what's the use of lineage? I've known a few who travel to China to train under Cheng XiaoWang for 2 weeks and started marketing themselves as direct disciples of Cheng XiaoWang.

Like Jesus Christ said, judge the tree by the fruits it bear. Judge a master by the skill and students he/she produces...not by whether he/she is lineage or not.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



[This message has been edited by JerryKarin (edited 11-01-2005).]

Greetings Matt,

I have a copy of Chen Weiming's book with the information on Chang Quan. I've never read it very closely or tried to translate it. I think Barbara Davis may be working on doing so eventually. I may try to post something on it in the next few days. It pretty much consists of names of movements (some the same as in the received form, some different), and some brief, sketchy descriptions.

Take care,
Louis

Thanks Louis.

I wonder if the Tung Fast form similar/close to taiji Chang quan we hear about?

matt

I have to agree completely with Chee Fatt on this one.
I had direct, and long term, training with someone who was clearly on a TCC families "lineage" chart. I thought I would surely get top quality training from them, after all they were on a "list", had their name right there in black and white alongside some big names in the game. Their bona fides along the lineage lines were unquestionable.
Turns out I didn't get very good quality training in TCC. I'm not sure what that was, but I know now what it wasn't.
I have been getting very good, in fact I will go so far as to say excellent, training with my Yang Cheng Fu Center Director. His name is not on any "lineage list" that I've seen. He is on the approved instructor list on this website, but I did not see that until long after I began to train with him.
So "lineage schmineage", as far as I'm concerned. It's all well and good to be in the lineage, but that's certainly no guaruntee that person can or will teach you TCC.
There are only two questions I need to know the answer to when it comes to finding an instructor anymore:
One: Does he actually know TCC? Two: Can and will he actually teach it to me?
If the answer to either question is "no" then why bother training with him?
The problem here is that unless you have some time training real quality TCC, like this establishment and several others teach every day, how would you know? I didn't, so I wasted a lot of time and quite a bit of cash on someone's "lineage" chartability.
Lineage is all well and good, but it certainly isn't any sure way to figure out who can and will teach you genuine TCC.

Bob

BTW- i told my friend to go argue with the Imperial yang Taijiquan people on their claim that their master studied with yang Lu Chan and they probably have the documentation to prove their claim. I just bought the VCD from china because in fine print it said it was the Yang Taijiquan practiced in the Imperial Court many generations ago. Apparently there have been several generations of student/teacher relationships since the time of Yang Lu Chan to keep this style of taijiquan still in existance.

i am just want him to check it out and not shoot the messenger.

I would really like to see him argue with them on the subject of their validity.