Yang Family Tai Chi Discussion Board

Hi Folks,

I noticed in another thread someone suggested starting a thread on JING vs QI.

My simple understanding is that Jing is Qi which has mixed with Shen (spirit) inside the practitioners body through the circulation of Qi through the Heavenly Circle ( main meridian points passing from perineum to crown - through the dan tien, etc). This would include Qi gathered from outside the body and pre-birth Qi stored in the body, mingled together through Taiji breathing and exercise. When the mind is in balance and spirit is involked during practice the Qi can mix with spirit to create Jing. Unlike Qi, Jing does not exist outside the body of the practitioner.

Anyone care to expand on this or correct me it would be appreciated.


Best,

Jamie

[This message has been edited by Jamie (edited 10-02-2008).]

[This message has been edited by Jamie (edited 10-02-2008).]

Jing1 essence, semen. Jing4 strength, energy

If one is engaging in proper and correct practice, jing will never be an issue. We all possess jing, i.e. the baby, the young, and the old but a difference would be the quality, which may be apropos a perhaps a strength scale. A baby's jing is formative and as they grow that 'jing' devlops according to their constitution and activities over the years.

As one gets old (a relative term here) the jing (one may associate strength or agility with it or any subjectiove observation as required), it decreases based on corresponding occupation or degree of sedentary activities that one did previously.

Many of the basic exercises of taijqiuan helps with 'jing' and 'qi' development as post standing, tuishou, posture training and development etc by nourishing/developing/nuturing the yangsheng (sorry for the use of such term) of the body.

My use of 'jing' and 'qi' is general and not meant to be absolutist in any sense. Each according to his understanding, training and ability!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jamie:
<B>Hi Folks,

I noticed in another thread someone suggested starting a thread on JING vs QI.

My simple understanding is that Jing is Qi which has mixed with Shen (spirit) inside the practitioners body through the circulation of Qi through the Heavenly Circle ( main meridian points passing from perineum to crown - through the dan tien, etc). This would include Qi gathered from outside the body and pre-birth Qi stored in the body, mingled together through Taiji breathing and exercise. When the mind is in balance and spirit is involked during practice the Qi can mix with spirit to create Jing. Unlike Qi, Jing does not exist outside the body of the practitioner.

Anyone care to expand on this or correct me it would be appreciated.


Best,

Jamie

[This message has been edited by Jamie (edited 10-02-2008).]

[This message has been edited by Jamie (edited 10-02-2008).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Jamie

Through my oral learning and practice I can only speak with my own word and experience as it is...First I have to be 'fang song' my whole body when and if I can. Then I fang song my 'yi'. It is this 'yi' intend to transform the 'qi' into 'power' that replace the all-out 'li' (physical stiff force). It is the 'yi' united with the 'qi'that created this internal jing which is very cool to the Taijiquan. Jing that omitted the 'yi' is external jing which is use by none internal martial artist. Without the 'spirit' they are still jings. But some one might label you as 'sleepy-head'.'Spirit' or Shen will show itself when one acquire a right attitudes at the next level.

Sorry to inform you that the Jing does exist outside the body of the practitioner, for those who practices it or at a higher level. Just in case you do not know yet.The circulation of Qi through the Heavenly Circle
is not limit only in one's own body. It can also orbiting outside of your own body with an opposite sexes partner because it need the Yin-Yang chi exchange. Ynag-Yang or Yin-Yin may over loaded the circuits as double weightiness.

Since you did asked anyone care to expand on this..Let this proves that I care. This by no mean to correcting you. Heavenly No.

Have a good orbiting day
yslim

[This message has been edited by yslim (edited 10-06-2008).]

Hi Yslim,

Your post is very interesting and informative for me. I didn't know that Jing exists independently, or I believed that it was produced within Man. Other than that I followed you up until the more specific sexual application of jing. I guess I tend to think about Taiji more than the Big Picture. When I have time I will research more.

Thanks,


Jamie

Hi Jamie,

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Jing1 essence, semen. Jing4 strength, energy</font>

Make sure you do not overlook Jerry's post. "Jing" has at least two different meanings that are somewhat frequent in Taijiquan. In Chinese they are actually pronounced and written differently. "Jing4" is probably also more frequently heard and encountered as "Jin4."

If you are talking about Jing, Qi, and Shen, then you are most likely referring to the first "jing" (¸), which means "
(vital)essence."

You may find the following helpful (or perhaps confusing):

"For example, as Zhu Xi's student (and son-in-law), Huang Gan, explained:

"'Human biology [lit. human life] is simply jing (vital essence) and qi. What constitutes hair, bones, flesh and blood is jing. What constitutes breath, cold, and warmth is qi. But humans are the most numinous (ling) of the myriad things;(26) they are not trees and rocks. Therefore their jing and their qi are full of spirit (shen). The spirit of jing is called po; the spirit of qi is called hun. What enables the eyes and ears to see and hear is the po; what enables this mind to think is the hun. Together, the po and hun are the spirit of yin and yang, and yet they are full of li. Only in the hun and po is there the fullness of li (moral order/principle).(27)'

"The Yijing says, "Jing and qi constitute things."(28) "Jing" means vital essence and blood; "qi" means warmth and vapor.... Vital essence and blood, warmth and vapor each have pure, numinous awareness (xuling zhijue) within them. The pure, numinous awareness of vital essence and blood is the po. The pure, numinous awareness of warmth and vapor is the hun. This pure, numinous awareness is not a pure, floating object. It is composed simply of abundant [or many] moral principle(s).(29)"

You can find the source of this quote at this Kenyon College website, which references the following:
From Tu Wei-ming and Mary Evelyn Tucker, eds., Confucian Spirituality,
vol. 2 (New York: Crossroad, 2004).

Take care,
Audi

[This message has been edited by Audi (edited 11-10-2008).]

Hi Audi,


That's some super interesting post! I follow that when qi is combined with spirit it produces Hun, when combined with jing4 it produces Po. That together they are the spirit of yin and yang is a real eye opener for me. I look forward to thinking about this for some time to come. Thanks for you post.


Best

Hi Jamie:

According to my understanding, in traditional Chinese belief, the "soul" had Yin and Yang aspects, like everything else. The Yang part could be seen in the last breath and the warmth of the body that rises to heaven; whereas the Yin part could be seen in the cooling of the dead body that sinks into the earth. As far as I know, however, these beliefs do not form a part of Tai Chi theory.

From a "practical" standpoint, I think of Jing, Qi, and Shen as forming an interactive triad of health. I think of Jing as begin those parts of my body I want to be healthy. I think of Qi as being the process that these parts govern. If the parts work well, they give you that "glow" of health. As for Shen, I associate that with "mood," "spirit," and "outlook."

If your Jing is abundant, this then generates more Qi, if your Qi is abundant this generates more Shen. If your organs and body parts are healthy, you have more energy and resiliance. If you have more energy and resiliance, you can engage life with more gusto, optimism, and relish.

If you put Jing and Shen together you get "Jingshen," which can be translated as "vitality" or "vigor." These English words imply a union of physical and mental that is explicit in the Chinese.

In addition to the relations I describe above, there is a reverse aspect to the virtuous circle. With more Shen, you can promote more Qi. With more Qi, you can promote more Jing. With a more positive outlook and more "gusto," you will naturally have greater energy. With greater energy, you will naturally have a healthier body.

Take care,
Audi

Hi Audi,


This is very interesting. It says alot for the benefits of Taiji to everyday life.

From my experience I found a turning point in my development/training where I suddenly had more spirit, or learned to engage and focus it. Or maybe I just developed enough Qi to generate spirit.
At that time my other energies increased. It was like a switch was flipped on. Especially in push hands my ability to "obtain the superior position" and to "start after my partner but arrive before them" increased suddenly.

I know that from the beginning of training my teacher urged creating postures that enlivend Qi and fostered spirit. Things like open the hands and elongate the arms with more ward off energy. As a beginner I found that as soon as I opended the hands that my eyes opened more and my mind concentrated more. At that time I also learned that if I kept more ward off energy in my shape that my body felt more alive and evetually more balanced and agile.

The reciprocol relationship of energy and spirit is amazing. Having hope and being optimistic, seeing the glass half full then can give people a better life experience. Seems like some of the archaic knowledge that we take for granted has some merit. I guess you could also derive various things about medicine, religion, mental health, etc from this theory. Cool!

Best

[This message has been edited by Jamie (edited 11-16-2008).]