Are the VCDs on Imperial (Funei) Yang Style Taijiquan a worth buy (for the Yang style practicioners)? There are aviable videos form Xiao Tie-Seng and Li Zheng. Is the "Funei" Yang Style similar (postures, principles,..) to the Yang Family Taijiquan or is completly different?
Is said that Yang Luchan at the begining taught in the Imperial court the original art of Taijiquan which included ten sets.
Yang Ban Hou was upset that his father taught the complete art openly and decided to spread a trimmed version that had only one "Large Frame" set.
Is the "Imperial Yang" an original Yang or is a mixture of Yang (and Hao) Style Taijiquan, (Cheng and Yin) Bagua and Xingyi?
Imperial Yang Style Taijiquan
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oldyangtaijiquan
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"Yang Ban Hou was upset that his father taught the complete art openly and decided to spread a trimmed version that had only one "Large Frame" set."
I can't answer the other questions, but the above quote caught my eye. I'm somewhat suspicious of groups that would use a story like that to promote their videos. There were certainly differences between what Lu-ch'an and Pan-hou taught, just as there are sure to be at least slight differences between any two teachers from a given school. As the stories of those differences get passed on, they become elaborated in the telling and then motives that may have nothing to do with the originals are ascribed to the people in the stories, for whatever reason.
When it comes to the history of the Yang family, we are better served to hear what the Yang family members themselves have to say. IMO they are likely to be much more reliable.
I can't answer the other questions, but the above quote caught my eye. I'm somewhat suspicious of groups that would use a story like that to promote their videos. There were certainly differences between what Lu-ch'an and Pan-hou taught, just as there are sure to be at least slight differences between any two teachers from a given school. As the stories of those differences get passed on, they become elaborated in the telling and then motives that may have nothing to do with the originals are ascribed to the people in the stories, for whatever reason.
When it comes to the history of the Yang family, we are better served to hear what the Yang family members themselves have to say. IMO they are likely to be much more reliable.
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oldyangtaijiquan
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I agree that there are many versions of the Yang style with suspicious origins. My opinion is also that the main standard for the authentic Yang style is the Yang Cheng Fu version.
But I also want to learn parts form the Yang TJQ curriculum that are not teached by the "Yang family", like Two Person Form and Taiji Qigong (that are teached by members of the Yang Jian Hou lineage).
I am searching if the Funei Style has any useful thing to improve my TJQ.
But I also want to learn parts form the Yang TJQ curriculum that are not teached by the "Yang family", like Two Person Form and Taiji Qigong (that are teached by members of the Yang Jian Hou lineage).
I am searching if the Funei Style has any useful thing to improve my TJQ.
I don't know about the quality, good or bad, of the Funei group, so I can't say, my observation only is on that I don't believe their assertion that there is some secret teaching that somehow bypassed Pan-hou's students.
My teacher's ancestors were Imperial bannermen, officers of the elite palace battalion, who learned from both Lu-ch'an and Pan-hou. So there is "Imperial" T'ai Chi still being taught out there. As well, Yang Ch'eng-fu was Yang Chien-hou's son, not Pan-hou's, so his lineage is Chien-hou's.
The things you are mentioning were only taught to very advanced students, disciples of the family, in the old days. If the current Yang family members don't teach them (I don't know if they do or don't), they have a good reason (there are trainings in the Wu family that are no longer taught, because they have beeen replaced by newer systems), usually because they teach something more efficient that does the same thing. Yang Ch'eng-fu and Wu Chien-ch'uan did quite a bit of research on T'ai Chi in the 1920s, and their results went beyond what went before for their purposes. Traditionally, it is recommended to learn a complete system from one school without adding outside things on willy-nilly.
[This message has been edited by Polaris (edited 05-03-2005).]
My teacher's ancestors were Imperial bannermen, officers of the elite palace battalion, who learned from both Lu-ch'an and Pan-hou. So there is "Imperial" T'ai Chi still being taught out there. As well, Yang Ch'eng-fu was Yang Chien-hou's son, not Pan-hou's, so his lineage is Chien-hou's.
The things you are mentioning were only taught to very advanced students, disciples of the family, in the old days. If the current Yang family members don't teach them (I don't know if they do or don't), they have a good reason (there are trainings in the Wu family that are no longer taught, because they have beeen replaced by newer systems), usually because they teach something more efficient that does the same thing. Yang Ch'eng-fu and Wu Chien-ch'uan did quite a bit of research on T'ai Chi in the 1920s, and their results went beyond what went before for their purposes. Traditionally, it is recommended to learn a complete system from one school without adding outside things on willy-nilly.
[This message has been edited by Polaris (edited 05-03-2005).]
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Yuri Snisarenko
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I've just received Li Zheng's VCDs on neigong (taijiquan neigong xinfa). Well, please don't take my opinion too seriously because I'm not an expert in questions of authenticity and lineages. I find the explanations interesting (there is no English only Chinese subtitles) however a little disappointing because of their rather academic approach. He demonstrates movements from both traditional 85 form and 108 imperial (funei) form. I would say that these styles have an obvious difference in manner of performance and I suppose in some internal aspects.
The VCDs include following topics:
- taiji diagram (taiji tu) in the movements
- song (loosening)
- breathing in the movements
- jing lo (meridians) theory
- dantian and dantian movements in different forms
etc.
[This message has been edited by Yuri Snisarenko (edited 05-05-2005).]
The VCDs include following topics:
- taiji diagram (taiji tu) in the movements
- song (loosening)
- breathing in the movements
- jing lo (meridians) theory
- dantian and dantian movements in different forms
etc.
[This message has been edited by Yuri Snisarenko (edited 05-05-2005).]